New Motor - Piston Ring Break-In/Seating???

[TheKurgan]

No way man!!! I had breathers on my stock motor... I stopped using the vents in the car...always had to use recirculation...my so called fresh air stunk!!!

That's why I have the hose on my catch can routed down under the car. Having no cats is a different story though...I"m getting really tired of smelling that.

 

[HellsBells]

That's why I have the hose on my catch can routed down under the car. Having no cats is a different story though...I"m getting really tired of smelling that.

BUT IT SMELLS SO GOOD

 

[b00stedgt]

Who built the motor? JDM?

 

[AutoXRacer]

Has the engine builder said anything about this?

Not really... Builder has pretty much dropped me.

Who built the motor? JDM?

302E is sold by JDM.

 

[05moneypit]

You really need to do a warm engine leak down test on this engine before you draw any conclusions on if the oil consumption is blow buy and if the rings are sealed. That is the only thing that will tell you for sure.

Your oil consumption could be (as discussed) crank case ventilation related or even valve seals and you are just not seeing the smoke.

I agree with most others that the break in procedure was not the way a lot of builders do engines but everyone has their own opinion on how to do it but, you did it just the way JDM wanted you to.

If you or your shop doesn't have access to a leak down gauge PM me and I will send you mine to use.

Lee

 

[NDSP]

My understanding on break in methodology is it depends on the clearances set up by the engine builder. The tighter the clearances the easier the break in, the looser the clearances the more aggressive the break in. So you should always listen to your builders recommendation, or at the very least let them how you want to break in the motor and they can set it up accordingly. Also the looser it starts out the less life it will have ( in total number of miles before rebuild is required ). Does this ring true to anyone, or am I in left field?

 

[AutoXRacer]

You really need to do a warm engine leak down test on this engine before you draw any conclusions on if the oil consumption is blow buy and if the rings are sealed. That is the only thing that will tell you for sure.

Your oil consumption could be (as discussed) crank case ventilation related or even valve seals and you are just not seeing the smoke.

I agree with most others that the break in procedure was not the way a lot of builders do engines but everyone has their own opinion on how to do it but, you did it just the way JDM wanted you to.

If you or your shop doesn't have access to a leak down gauge PM me and I will send you mine to use.

Lee

Hey Lee, wow, thanks for the offer. I would definitely take you up on it if I knew how to perform a leak-down test. lol

All I know is that it has something to do with filling each individual cylinder with compressed air for a certain amount of time and measuring how long it keeps pressure/how much it leaks. But thats about it.

How would you align the valves so they are closed in each individual cylinder?
I guess you could stick a rod into the spark plug hole and set it at TDC and test.

What is the window of opportunity to test warm? Meaning, I have always been told to never remove spark plugs on a hot engine.

I will pickup a couple of oil separators at lowes and plumb them in on the driver's side to have an idea of how much oil is being routed into the intake.

I'll have to talk to Lee about this leak down test procedure.

My understanding on break in methodology is it depends on the clearances set up by the engine builder. The tighter the clearances the easier the break in, the looser the clearances the more aggressive the break in. So you should always listen to your builders recommendation, or at the very least let them how you want to break in the motor and they can set it up accordingly. Also the looser it starts out the less life it will have ( in total number of miles before rebuild is required ). Does this ring true to anyone, or am I in left field?

My understanding is that the 302E is as tight as a....well, you know...lets just say its really tight. lol
(at least that's what they told me; much much tighter than OEM)


Update!!!

Build sheet coming!!!! WAHOO!!!

 

[05moneypit]

Google engine leak down or you tube it. You just want to have it at operating temperature for the leak down so you get a true reading. Taking the plugs out of the engine hot is not an issue....I have done it many times.


Are you running an aftermarket oil pan?

 

[AutoXRacer]

Google engine leak down or you tube it. You just want to have it at operating temperature for the leak down so you get a true reading. Taking the plugs out of the engine hot is not an issue....I have done it many times.


Are you running an aftermarket oil pan?

No, stock pan. Why?


Update!!!!!

Here is the build sheet!!!! So....what does all this mean...? lol

 

[05moneypit]

I have seen where an aftermarket pan and the stock dip stick didn't coincide and the pan ended up with to much oil in it. Crank was really whipping the oil and causing oil loss through the vent system.

 

[BruceH]

So you did have a build sheet. Good.

The bearings are a little over stock but not much. The piston to bore is tight for Manley 2618 pistons. They generally specify .003-.0035" depending on application. I don't see the ring clearances but I'd bet they are good.

I have a question for you Gerald. Do you let the motor come completely up to temp before driving it? The 2618 pistons expand as they heat which is why the ptb is .0027", to allow for the expansion. Until they expand you will have some blowby. I don't know how much but it could explain your concerns. Everything could be fine with the motor.

 

[lethe]

.
I don't see the ring clearances but I'd bet they are good.

Are you talking about gap? That's on his build sheet.

Top .022
2nd .024
Oil .030

 

[screaming_pc]

Also on the break-in thing, there's two schools of thoughts: beat on it or baby it (somewhat, baby it).

I'll chime in with my experience. Brenspeed recommended 10w40 conventional in my motor--for the life of the motor. Not sure why they don't recommend any synthetic after and when asked, they never answered me. Either way, I run the conventional stuff they recommend (valvoline) since they offer a warranty.

For my break in, granted I didn't have the same rings as you, they said:

1) Start up, idle for 30 mins, shut it off, change oil
2) Break-in period 400 miles, part throttle, up to 75% throttle, let the engine rev up and down, up to 4500rpm. They stressed that you want lots of heat cycles.
3) Change oil again
4) ...
5) Profit?

I have the B302 too and this is exactly the same information I was told.

They did the install and the initial break-in/oil change, then they told me to drive it between 2500 and 4000 rpm and stop every so often to heat cycle the engine. I would make a small pull then let the engine brake itself. Over and over. Not constantly but every 5 or 10 minutes.

I drove like that for 1 day in Michigan for 565 miles and the next day they changed the oil and dyno tuned it.

That was 18000 miles ago and it doesn't use any oil, and still pulls like a beast.

I still run the 10W-40 Valvoline conventional and I change it every 2500-3000 miles.

 

[BruceH]

Are you talking about gap? That's on his build sheet.

Top .022
2nd .024
Oil .030

Sometimes the correct words just don't make it to the keyboard. Thanks.

 

[HellsBells]

I have the B302 too and this is exactly the same information I was told.

They did the install and the initial break-in/oil change, then they told me to drive it between 2500 and 4000 rpm and stop every so often to heat cycle the engine. I would make a small pull then let the engine brake itself. Over and over. Not constantly but every 5 or 10 minutes.

I drove like that for 1 day in Michigan for 565 miles and the next day they changed the oil and dyno tuned it.

That was 18000 miles ago and it doesn't use any oil, and still pulls like a beast.

I still run the 10W-40 Valvoline conventional and I change it every 2500-3000 miles.

Good to know! I do the same on the oil change interval.

 

[one eyed willy]

Wow, only 70 ft lbs on the head studs....I do mine to 100

 

[05stroker]

Wow, only 70 ft lbs on the head studs....I do mine to 100

So do I.

 

[BruceH]

Wow, only 70 ft lbs on the head studs....I do mine to 100

So do I.

Does arp give a value to use with their lube? I'm going to guess it's 100 since both of you used 100. 70 could be the spec for a different kind of lube like moly.

 

[larry's roush]

Have to say this is the best site for technicle advise. Very interesting. Lots of food for thought that i never knew.

 

[one eyed willy]

I think arp says 90 with their arp lube , arp lube is moly lube. I was thinking 70ft lbs would be closer to a oil torque spec? I dunno, just seems low.