Recently Installed Cams, Threw a Code

[3VPOWA]

Alright, first to provide background information (and I hope this thread belongs here).

Last Thursday/Friday I installed BBR Stage 1 Cams following hammeron's write-up. The car ran great Friday and Saturday. Yesterday I drove it to work and had no issues either. Get to today and there were issues.

The code thrown was P0012 (Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1) which I read with my X3. The car drove fine for ~35 miles at highway speed as well as stopping at 3-4 traffic lights. When I came to a stop and turned right at a light is when the problems started to happen. The car lost almost all power, rough idle, couldn't rev past ~1500 rpm, and the brake pedal went stiff. I've searched and read the numerous threads on this forum to see what the issue might be.

I took the valve covers off and checked the cam caps and the bolts to see if the issue was similar to Greg's, however, they were fine. All cam followers look fine and are still seated properly.

At this point I think that it's either: cam phasers are messed up, cam position sensor is bad, VCT solenoids need to be replaced, or worst case scenario the timing chain jumped a tooth.

Based on the replies in this thread I think it may be the cam phasers, but I'm not sure. They look similar to other pictures I've found: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35454

If it is the timing being off, how long would it take for something like this to show?

These are pictures I just took of the cam phasers on my car:

Any help/advice/criticism would be greatly appreciated!

Jon

 

[esworld05]

I've read somewhere that the cars throw that code when the alternator starts going bad. Your brake pedal shouldn't get stiff if it has somehting to do with the cams only. Since it went stiff, I think you're alt is going bad. Might want to search bad alternator see what info you get.

 

[3VPOWA]

I've read somewhere that the cars throw that code when the alternator starts going bad. Your brake pedal shouldn't get stiff if it has somehting to do with the cams only. Since it went stiff, I think you're alt is going bad. Might want to search bad alternator see what info you get.

I've come across that solution as well. However, with how bad the car was running, would that be because of the alternator? Just doesn't seem like it would.

 

[GrnBullitt08]

Did you time everything in appropriately?

 

[3VPOWA]

Did you time everything in appropriately?

Please forgive me, but meaning?

 

[BruceH]

Brake pedal being hard to push means loss of vacuum. The very first thing for you to look at is the vacuum line that goes to the brake booster. It's the round thing on the firewall drivers side. Run your hand along the length of the line and make sure it's hooked up to the brake booster.

 

[3VPOWA]

Brake pedal being hard to push means loss of vacuum. The very first thing for you to look at is the vacuum line that goes to the brake booster. It's the round thing on the firewall drivers side. Run your hand along the length of the line and make sure it's hooked up to the brake booster.

I'll definitely check that, but that wouldn't be the cause of my other issues would it?

 

[BruceH]

I'll definitely check that, but that wouldn't be the cause of my other issues would it?

Yes, once that line comes off the motor loses vacuum and won't idle or rev very well. I am speaking from first hand experience. It's relatively easy to knock the booster line off when working on the motor, especially when pulling valve covers. It happened to me after changing a clutch.

Go check it.

 

[3VPOWA]

Yes, once that line comes off the motor loses vacuum and won't idle or rev very well. I am speaking from first hand experience. It's relatively easy to knock the booster line off when working on the motor, especially when pulling valve covers. It happened to me after changing a clutch.

Go check it.

The line that comes off the "round thing" has a T in it, correct? One part going to the rear of the intake manifold and the other to the fuel rails? If so, that was still connected.

 

[BruceH]

I can't remember what it looks like on an na motor. Here's a pic of the brake booster and the vacuum line.

 

[3VPOWA]

Yep, still connected.

 

[3VPOWA]

I think I'm going to try new cam position sensors and VCT solenoids tomorrow. If that doesn't work, then I'm pulling the front cover and retiming the damn thing. I just don't get why the motor ran perfectly fine for 3 days and then this happened. It was even ran pretty hard on Saturday without a hiccup.

 

[HEMI LOL]

I think I'm going to try new cam position sensors and VCT solenoids tomorrow. If that doesn't work, then I'm pulling the front cover and retiming the damn thing. I just don't get why the motor ran perfectly fine for 3 days and then this happened. It was even ran pretty hard on Saturday without a hiccup.

can you swap CPS from side to side? as in i dont know if they are L R sensors. it you can it might be worth a try to see if the code follows the sensors. you could also try to reload the tune. just trying to think of some FREE and easy stuff to try first.

 

[AbdullaGT500]

Is your wrench light on?

 

[3VPOWA]

can you swap CPS from side to side? as in i dont know if they are L R sensors. it you can it might be worth a try to see if the code follows the sensors. you could also try to reload the tune. just trying to think of some FREE and easy stuff to try first.

Yea, I definitely want this to have as minimal of a cost as possible. I'll probably try that tomorrow.

Is your wrench light on?

I think it was, cannot remember for sure.

I've read somewhere that the cars throw that code when the alternator starts going bad. Your brake pedal shouldn't get stiff if it has somehting to do with the cams only. Since it went stiff, I think you're alt is going bad. Might want to search bad alternator see what info you get.

And I'm going back to your idea but the only thing that troubles me is that this happened not too long after installing cams. I do run a ~1000 watt stereo system in the car and have had it for half a year now. Maybe the alternator is finally going out? Just seems too coincidental though.

 

[JeremyH]

That code you got is normaly a tune thing. As far as the running bad sounds like an idle/vac issue, and maybe it skipped a tooth but if it did it would run like that all the time.

 

[UltraKla$$ic]

/\/\/\/\ That's what I think too. If it's run good for 3 days, then I think it's tune related or something other than related to the cam install unless they knocked something loose like Bruce is suggesting.

I'd try the least invasive stuff first, like clearing the PCM and reflashing, then I'd put a wrench on all the bolts related to the cam install making sure they maintained their TQ value. If all this shows no evidence of changing from the install. I'd be inclined to look elsewhere. Burnt wires, loose connections, cracked vacuum lines....etc...etc...

If it did jump time, or you guys slipped a tooth during the install, that would suck, but I'd chase down the little things first.

 

[SteveP]

did you use the ford cam tool and put the motor at to dead center?

 

[3VPOWA]

That code you got is normaly a tune thing. As far as the running bad sounds like an idle/vac issue, and maybe it skipped a tooth but if it did it would run like that all the time.

I spoke with Steve @ BBR and he doesn't believe it to be a tune issue. Why would it throw that code and run like shit that long after? Where else could I check vacuum lines?

/\/\/\/\ That's what I think too. If it's run good for 3 days, then I think it's tune related or something other than related to the cam install unless they knocked something loose like Bruce is suggesting.

I'd try the least invasive stuff first, like clearing the PCM and reflashing, then I'd put a wrench on all the bolts related to the cam install making sure they maintained their TQ value. If all this shows no evidence of changing from the install. I'd be inclined to look elsewhere. Burnt wires, loose connections, cracked vacuum lines....etc...etc...

If it did jump time, or you guys slipped a tooth during the install, that would suck, but I'd chase down the little things first.

I'm going to replace the sensors today and see what she does.

did you use the ford cam tool and put the motor at to dead center?

Yep. Used the Freedom Racing tool, put the motor at TDC and remove the 3 followers on each side, then rotated the crank to the 6 o'clock position with the timing mark at 7 o'clock.


Would the car still run if off a tooth?

 

[JeremyH]

Yes the car will still run sometimes with a tooth off but it would be crappy all the time. Does it run bad now at idle? Try starting the car with the maf unplugged.

9 times out of 10 and over retarded cam code with aftermarket cams is a setting in the tune and yes it will only do it every once in awhile. But i dont necessarily think this is the reason its running bad. Like other said check all your work all the bolts and make sure you dont have pinched wires or vac leaks anywhere. I hate to see you tear it apart to time it and not fix the problem.