sheizasosay
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Not yet lol!
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You’re down near Putnam aren’t you? I’ve been telling a friend that we need to get down there this year for a TD. I’ve got a billion laps around there on a bike, some race wins and was flirting with the lap record for a while. I love that track! If we can make it down there maybe you could show me the fast way around?? This car stuff is a completely different puzzle than the bikes.
I would guess upwards of $150,000 plus keeping it running and putting tires on it. It probably costs $7,00-10,000/weekend to run it when everything is added up. And that is if you don't crash it or blow it up. Your right, that is not playing around money.
Shut your mouth!
Keep the blower in it's range is big. I think with a decent upgraded heat exchanger and the right pulley you will get a lot more consitency out of your car on a road course. I'm not a big fan of the afco dual fan HE, but that puppy would sure as hell shine on your cool down lap and when you have to park while the next group goes out on the track. Pulley swap on a blower is easy for a lot of units. You could always have a street/ 1/4 mile pulley setup and then when you goto the road course have a pulley that isn't so overzealous.
I got heat soaked pretty good, but was still hitting only 5mph less on the straights from my first cold run of the day. That is acceptable to me, but I would prefer zero loss. I'm willing to wager my car did a LOT of cooking when it was parked. Having that dual fan HE would probably be where it's at, unless you wanna get all high tech and get the Killer Chiller or something.
Me personally, I would grab that blower you want and just use the pulleys as "heat tuning". Road courses aren't the only place we enjoy our cars.
Who needs a supercharger or a turbocharger? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOlP7NNdiQ8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfpM9IUoI4k I ran this car at Big Willow on a 102 degree day. Ran like it was on the freeway. Temperature never went above freway normal. Tiger racing hood helps a lot. 522rwhp is more than enough for me and it runs just as hard on lap 6 as lap 1. Going out again to test the Cortex Torque arm and Watts link combo on April 21, 2013. If anybody in Southern California is interested in joining me, PM me.
Temperature never went above freway normal.
I don’t want to be misunderstood here.
If I were doing 3-4 track days a year and driving the car on the street all the time I would not give up my blower for ANYTHING!
Now if I were doing 1+ track day a month and the car was more track focused (bar, big brakes, stripped interior, slicky tires, towing it to track, etc) it would be NA for sure.
As much of a PITA the heat is on the track it doesn’t even get close to outweighing the ability to dip the clutch and smoke the tires at 60mph when cruising around town.
Don't forget that when it comes to boost and heat as long as the blower is not being over spun 8psi will make "X" heat no matter what blower you are running. A Procharger making 8psi will have the exact same discharge temps that a Whipple running 8psi will. If you are looking for low IAT's it will come down to what you are doing to cool those discharge temps.
Keep in mind if you run a blower with a air-water intercooler you can set it up to run the cooling system between sessions. I run all my pumps and fans between sessions and it helps out TREMEDOUSLY. Can't do that with a air-air setup.
Good luck.
+1 for the vote to always stay NA for track cars.
We do a lot of track events, and I've been going to these for 25+ years. The number one type of problem I see at these events is engine failures from boosted cars. It is a combination of heat soak, insufficient cooling capacity, and that dreaded "just a little more boost" bug that bites people when they get greedy. Most of my friends in college and many after were "boost junkies" and would come do track events ... but most of them had serious engine trouble.
Even factory turbocharged cars have problems all the time. At the last NASA event I competed in, two of the Time Trial EVOs scattered motors on track, and those are stout iron-block Mitsubishi motors.
Superchargers are great power adders for drag racing, and even fun for street use, but they just don't have the reliability for sustained Wide Open Throttle, high load, heat soaking, lap-after-lap road course use. Not in HPDE, not in W2W racing. You can just never make boosted engines as reliable as an NA motor, and they will always be fuel/heat/knock sensitive. So VERY few W2W road race builds are boosted, and this is for good reason.
Sure, some infrequent HPDE events - where you only take a few hot laps at a time - it can work. In events that focus on getting only ONE fast lap time - Global Time Attack - almost ALL of the entries are CRAZY boost buggies. But those guys make 1 or 2 laps in a session and come in... when we ran GTA the only cars that stayed out the entire session, making a LOT more laps, were the NA cars.
I cannot deny that power potential of a supercharger or turbocharger. Or even nitrous. Chemically adding oxygen (N2) or "un"natural aspiration (boost) will always make more ultimate horsepower than NA. This works, just not for a long time under sustained use on track.
Just my two cents.
I'm not sure who the non-RRer is...As the OP, I am looking at options, not yet convinced...however, I might be soon...
I appreciate Terry Fair's comments and others that have recommended the N/A approach to Road Racing...less moving parts, less to break, less to maintain, easier to tune, less weight...etc. However, I was trying to get some more oomph out of the current car without having to swap motors (coyote/boss option), swap cars (sell this, buy a new GT/Boss...which I will do in a year or two!), rebuild the motor with forged internals and upgraded heads, cams (already moved to FRPP Mani, Comp Stage 2 SPR, Headers)...so that last option would be FI or simply stay under powered against the Z06s, new GTs and M3s.
The reason for the Procharger choice was two-fold...one, a system is readily available and two, it seems like the better choice for RR...less heat soak, power band mostly in the mid to upper rpm range, less weight that most TS or similar...So am I will to drop 4k on an 'experiment' for another 70-100 rwhp and chance the motor...F...it...it's only money!
I think that with 3 row intercooler, some routing of air via boxing behind the front valance, the Tiger Racing hood for air/heat extraction, running only 8-9PSI, I might have a reasonable setup that would stay cooler than high hp setups, give me the additional power that I want and hopefully keep the stock motor together.
Plus the final reason...I can't sit still long enough...I have to change shit and experiment with new stuff!!! Really, are any of us ever satisfied?!
"GREED IS GOOD"
Yes, reading many threads, including that link you sent on PCDRJs car, are telling the same story
The 127500 cams work great...with the FRPP Mani and Pypes/x-off road, the thing is a beast...I currently run the car to a 6800 redline and it's still pulling. The 127500 are mid to high range cams, great for road racing, but lose some down low streetable torque. They really woke up this engine. My dyno sheet shows the HP still rising at 6150. I have another sheet where we ran to 6400 and got 372..can't find it. Here is the 6150 dyno sheet (disclaimer: STD correction):
Running a Vortech V-3 on the '06 GT. Ran it at a couple road race tracks and after a few laps the water temp would creep up to 240*.
Next time out I had the A2A IC connected. No issues at all with temps after 20min of running. Max temp was 204* on the last 10/10 lap - back down to 197* on cool down.
Never driven a roots type SC so I have nothing to compare, but the centrifugal is so RR friendly on corner exit! It come's on gradually and then sets ya back in the seat!!!
Wouldn't have it any other way - especially since mine is a daily driver.
Video from last event:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEasuPQpiIo&feature=youtu.be
Dyno'd 504 rwhp.
I have to disagree. On my car with 20lbs of boost, my IAT's are 20-30 degrees above ambient. The discharge temps on a Procharger are cooler because of the design of the impeller and the fact that it doesn't absorb heat from being in the engine valley. I have a MD1750 3000hp dyno and have done extensive datalogs on most power adders on my dyno and on the track. Also, if you have a good AtoA, there isn't any reason to cool it in the pits. As soon as I pull out onto the track, my IATs drop to just above ambient.
(20 - 30 Degrees above Ambient is very impressive at 20LBs)
I was referring to the temp increase you get by compressing air. It doesn’t matter if the compressor is 100% efficient there will always be heat generated when air is compressed. At 100% efficiency it is about 9.9deg/psi. Of course no blower, turbo, etc is 100% efficient so that is a best case “fantasy” number.I have to disagree. On my car with 20lbs of boost, my IAT's are 20-30 degrees above ambient. The discharge temps on a Procharger are cooler because of the design of the impeller and the fact that it doesn't absorb heat from being in the engine valley.
I was referring to the temp increase you get by compressing air. It doesn’t matter if the compressor is 100% efficient there will always be heat generated when air is compressed. At 100% efficiency it is about 9.9deg/psi. Of course no blower, turbo, etc is 100% efficient so that is a best case “fantasy” number.
I just wanted to illustrate that any compressor creates heat, and at 20psi A LOT OF IT, about 200deg at 100% efficiency! So factor in a 75deg day and a realistic blower efficiency and you could easily top 300deg pre intercooler. No matter how you stack it that is a lot of heat to shed.
Not calling you a liar, but that seems very, very optimistic to me and maybe needs to be qualified. Are you saying if you were to make a 10sec WOT pull at 20psi with your old Procharger setup the IAT’s would only be 30deg over ambient when you shut it down? If so that is impressive.
I'd see very low AIT's on my Procharger during "closed course" testing. At the strip it was a different story. AIT's would be an at acceptable level till I went through the burnout box. One particular day when it was in the low 90's ambient and I was data logging I would see 180* temps off the line and it rose as high as 205* by the end of the track. Part of that was that I was seeing 27psi of boost at redline, but I was only running a 4.3" pulley. My motor had a lot of restriction somewhere that I never figured out. I know the stock heads, cams and intake were part of the problem but I got rid of the car instead of letting it sit in the garage collecting dust after my kids were born.I agree. The IAT's I was seeing with my Procharger were considerably higher. Especially at the drags. My whole system would heat soak so bad, I couldn't start out a run under 150 degrees, let alone end one at that.
I suspect sensor placement as one reason to see cold IAT's like that. With my maf (and integrated IAT sensor) mounted at the intercooler my IAT's generally read close to ambient or within 20-30 degrees on WOT runs. But, once I moved my sensor to the intake manifold, that's when I got a true reading of what the motor was actually seeing. It's a night and day difference.
Are you saying if you were to make a 10sec WOT pull at 20psi with your old Procharger setup the IAT’s would only be 30deg over ambient when you shut it down? If so that is impressive.