SoundGuyDave
This Space For Rent
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Posts
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Okay, I'll throw my hat in the ring here, and just bring hard tech, not supposition...
1) Spring rates matched to the application (race, track toy, street) and good dampers able to properly control them make an incredible impact on the controlablility and consistency of a car.
2) The S197 chassis does inherently understeer a touch. Not horribly, but noticeably when pushed to the limit. The thee leading causes are (flame suit on) Excessive entry speed, abrupt turn-in technique, excessive nose weight. There are a lot of different things you can do (without touching a toolbox) to ameliorate or minimize the push, but it's just inherent to a 3400+lb vehicle with a relatively high CG trying to change vectors.
3) "Coilover" to me simply indicates a particular spring/damper arrangement with an adjustable spring perch location. Period. The word itself does not denote a magic bullet for suspension or handling woes. GMitch does provide a list of positives to the arrangement (corner-weighting, ride height, low spring cost), but just "getting coilovers" will not suddenly transform a nose-heavy 4000lb supercharged S197 into a GT3RS killer.
4) The Koni Yellow/Steeda Sport/MM plate setup is a proven combination of parts that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend to a track-day guy, or even an infrequent visitor to the road course. In short, they just don't suck. If you're hard-core, then yes, there are other proven setups that make more sense.
5) The Eibach R3 may well be the best thing since sliced bread, but I will wager that a quality damper (all other things being the same) with no adjustments at all will be "better" than a mis-adjusted high-end damper. To me, if the compression curve matches the springs, and I can adjust the rebound over a wide range (no digressive curve discussions, please!) to suit differening tracks and track conditions, that's more than enough for 99% of the people out there, including me.
If anybody needs to ask, I have owned or driven (on track) quite a number of differing suspension setups on the S197 chassis. Stock, lightly modified, Koni/Steeda/MM, AST singles, KW Clubsports, and even SLA/Watts cars. I've instructed in an even larger variety.
If you want to see what good springs and dampers can do, simply look below:
Now, if you want to cure the "push" in our cars, you need to go back to basics, and make sure that the driver mods are up to snuff. Lower your entry speed a touch, smooth out the control inputs, and STOP going too fast through the slow corners, and too slow through the fast corners. They should all "feel" the same (plus or minus aero aids). A tick tight on entry, neutral through, and then a tick loose on exit. For the slow corners, trailbrake a touch to get the rear rotating at entry, and suddenly your push will all but vanish. Then, get on the gas early and HARD, at or before apex, and rocket out. Try to put just the outside rear tire on the rumble strips. That will give you just about the right slip angle to really get the tires working, AND will confirm that you're carrying appropriate speed through apex assuming you don't have throttle-induced oversteer. Until you, as the driver, can control the attitude of the car through all phases of the corner, tuning the suspension to fit your errors is just a crutch.
1) Spring rates matched to the application (race, track toy, street) and good dampers able to properly control them make an incredible impact on the controlablility and consistency of a car.
2) The S197 chassis does inherently understeer a touch. Not horribly, but noticeably when pushed to the limit. The thee leading causes are (flame suit on) Excessive entry speed, abrupt turn-in technique, excessive nose weight. There are a lot of different things you can do (without touching a toolbox) to ameliorate or minimize the push, but it's just inherent to a 3400+lb vehicle with a relatively high CG trying to change vectors.
3) "Coilover" to me simply indicates a particular spring/damper arrangement with an adjustable spring perch location. Period. The word itself does not denote a magic bullet for suspension or handling woes. GMitch does provide a list of positives to the arrangement (corner-weighting, ride height, low spring cost), but just "getting coilovers" will not suddenly transform a nose-heavy 4000lb supercharged S197 into a GT3RS killer.
4) The Koni Yellow/Steeda Sport/MM plate setup is a proven combination of parts that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend to a track-day guy, or even an infrequent visitor to the road course. In short, they just don't suck. If you're hard-core, then yes, there are other proven setups that make more sense.
5) The Eibach R3 may well be the best thing since sliced bread, but I will wager that a quality damper (all other things being the same) with no adjustments at all will be "better" than a mis-adjusted high-end damper. To me, if the compression curve matches the springs, and I can adjust the rebound over a wide range (no digressive curve discussions, please!) to suit differening tracks and track conditions, that's more than enough for 99% of the people out there, including me.
If anybody needs to ask, I have owned or driven (on track) quite a number of differing suspension setups on the S197 chassis. Stock, lightly modified, Koni/Steeda/MM, AST singles, KW Clubsports, and even SLA/Watts cars. I've instructed in an even larger variety.
If you want to see what good springs and dampers can do, simply look below:
Now, if you want to cure the "push" in our cars, you need to go back to basics, and make sure that the driver mods are up to snuff. Lower your entry speed a touch, smooth out the control inputs, and STOP going too fast through the slow corners, and too slow through the fast corners. They should all "feel" the same (plus or minus aero aids). A tick tight on entry, neutral through, and then a tick loose on exit. For the slow corners, trailbrake a touch to get the rear rotating at entry, and suddenly your push will all but vanish. Then, get on the gas early and HARD, at or before apex, and rocket out. Try to put just the outside rear tire on the rumble strips. That will give you just about the right slip angle to really get the tires working, AND will confirm that you're carrying appropriate speed through apex assuming you don't have throttle-induced oversteer. Until you, as the driver, can control the attitude of the car through all phases of the corner, tuning the suspension to fit your errors is just a crutch.
Get the best you can afford. They make the biggest difference especially when combined with proper spring rates. Koni yellows are going to be the favorite here. I don't care for the DSpecs. Bilstein makes quality dampers and coilovers, if you don't think you'll actually play with the adjustments, and just focus on driving, or if your class your running doesn't allow adjustables. Eibach has great marketing, but I've yet to see anyone actually racing on their R2's... seems like street bling to me until it becomes proven quality. Then there's the higher end dampers... Moton, AST, KW, FR500S from Ford Racing, Koni Racing series... Without knowing exactly where you're at, it's hard to say what you need... All I can tell you is buy the best dampers you can afford.
