TREMEC T56 Magnum S197 Transmission

[ZmanM3]

Interesting, my viper spec t56 never makes a peep. I have a spec 3+ clutch on it. I used the amsoil ATF in it. I can lug it down low or shift at 6k. I had 4:10 gears but switched to 3:73 when I put the Torsen diff in it.

 

[Saleen304]

Stay above 2,000 rpm? I should put a Honda badge on my Saleen. With the stock 5-speed the engine would pull from 1,600 rpm, no problem. It's a roots style supercharger, torque is it's specialty. No, this Magnum is a piece of junk, what a waste of money.

Did you ever have a twin disc clutch with your 3650 trans? I have had a twin disc with the 3650 and Magnum XL and the vibrations are the same. In 3rd or 4th between 1400-1700 rpms you can get a little vibration. I think it also has something to do with using a light flywheel. Anyway, it is not specific to the Magnum XL trans. Your noises seem to be much more pronounced if they sound like rocks in a coffee can though. I have never had any issues shifting. Always smooth and easy and I shift at 7000 rpms. I would suspect other issues with the trans or installation issues. As others have stated you should contact JPC.

 

[tigerhonaker]

So I finally decided to get the Magnum XL 6-speed. Nice looking kit from JPC. RST clutch, all the good stuff. Bolted it into my Saleen, and ...
What a piece of junk! It doesn't rattle in neutral or anything silly, but below 2,000 rpm in 3rd or 4th it makes the loudest noise, sounds like a coffee can full of rocks ON YOUR HEAD! and forget shifting hard from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 4th. It's notchy and even hard to find 3rd if your above 5,000. Man, $4,700 for the trans kit and another $1,400 for the required 3.73 geared rear. WORSE $6,100 I EVER spent.

Yes, the alignment dowels were installed.
Yes, it's a brand new Ford Racing shortblock.

I HATE this trans. I shoulda just put a blowfish racing shifter support on.

Sorry to read how things have turned-out with you new transmission set-up.

Terry

 

[cgornowich]

magnum xl

Saleen 304, I did not have a dual disc clutch paired with the old trans. This is my first dual disc clutch, so it is logical that the clutch could be at fault for the "coffee can o'rocks" noise. And as I stated before, I did not install the three alignment dowels in the McLeod lightened (but steel) flywheel. I guess the thing to do is pull it back apart, install the dowels and then put it all back together and see what happens. It's weird that it only happens in 3rd and 4th gear, not a peep in 1st, 2nd, 5th or 6th. Does this sound likely in your experience?

While it's apart I guess I should check the alignment on the bellhousing/trans connection, even though none of the instructions that came with the kit suggested it. That could be the hard shifting issue. Man, what a pain in the butt...

I really wish I would not have swapped the trans, it's not any better in my view.

 

[Saleen304]

Saleen 304, I did not have a dual disc clutch paired with the old trans. This is my first dual disc clutch, so it is logical that the clutch could be at fault for the "coffee can o'rocks" noise. And as I stated before, I did not install the three alignment dowels in the McLeod lightened (but steel) flywheel. I guess the thing to do is pull it back apart, install the dowels and then put it all back together and see what happens. It's weird that it only happens in 3rd and 4th gear, not a peep in 1st, 2nd, 5th or 6th. Does this sound likely in your experience?



While it's apart I guess I should check the alignment on the bellhousing/trans connection, even though none of the instructions that came with the kit suggested it. That could be the hard shifting issue. Man, what a pain in the butt...



I really wish I would not have swapped the trans, it's not any better in my view.

Yes, 3rd and 4th only are issues with twin disc. Once you get things sorted you will love the transmission. With my 3650 it was a crap shoot whether it would go into second gear on the drag strip. The Magnum is perfect every time. I also found that Pennzoil Synchromesh made these transmissions smoother. I had used mobil 1 originally and prefer the synchromesh.

 

[cgornowich]

What clutch with the Magnum XL

OK, I searched and didn't see this addressed elsewhere in the site. All of you Magnum XL owners: What clutch do you have and are there any issues with it?
My thinking here is I'm only putting 500 or so ft lbs to the wheels, maybe the RST dual disc is overkill? Maybe a nice spec 3+ would do fine?

 

[skwerl]

I had the T56 with McLeod RST clutch in my Bullitt. I can't remember but I think I put it in when I still had the stock motor in it so I was only making 450-500hp. It performed flawlessly from the day I put it in until the day I totaled the car (had 643rwhp). Sold it to another forum member and he's been running it in his supercharged car for the last 2 years.

It's a great clutch and a great transmission. Hopefully you get yours sorted out before giving up and replacing it.

 

[cgornowich]

Update

So after re-reading the instructions and looking through the "box of unused parts" I found the three little pins from the clutch kit that align the flywheel with the floater disc still in the box. So I pulled the transmission, removed the clutch, installed the three pins, and put it all back together. This time measuring the run out, which was within spec. Put it all back together and... Still makes almost the exact same noise below 2k RPM in third and fourth. Maybe third is muted slightly from what it was before, but fourth is identical.

To add to the mix, I installed a Griggs torque arm, Griggs lower control arms (the street ones with rod ends on only one end) and re-installed the Fays2 watts link. That and a Torsen T2R differential with the 3.73's and I hoped to have THE suspension.

So here's the problem: The car is SO loud at 75 mph, you cannot have a conversation without yelling. And the stereo strains at a volume of 10. The exhaust is stock, the noise is the rear gear whining. So I pulled the entire thing, and bolted in a used Bullet rear, regular diff with 3.73's. Same noise...

Now I know what you're thinking, stop complaining. Don't get me wrong, the car drives great. No squat, no dive, it's a beautiful thing. But it's not enjoyable. I can live with the 3rd and 4th gear rattle, but the rear gear noise is driving me nuts. If I knew it would be this loud I would have left the rear end alone.

Anyway, I'm thinking my next idea is to install some kind of Dynamat, or similar product. I know, 80 pounds later it'll only be a little less obnoxious.
Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[Saleen304]

So after re-reading the instructions and looking through the "box of unused parts" I found the three little pins from the clutch kit that align the flywheel with the floater disc still in the box. So I pulled the transmission, removed the clutch, installed the three pins, and put it all back together. This time measuring the run out, which was within spec. Put it all back together and... Still makes almost the exact same noise below 2k RPM in third and fourth. Maybe third is muted slightly from what it was before, but fourth is identical.



To add to the mix, I installed a Griggs torque arm, Griggs lower control arms (the street ones with rod ends on only one end) and re-installed the Fays2 watts link. That and a Torsen T2R differential with the 3.73's and I hoped to have THE suspension.



So here's the problem: The car is SO loud at 75 mph, you cannot have a conversation without yelling. And the stereo strains at a volume of 10. The exhaust is stock, the noise is the rear gear whining. So I pulled the entire thing, and bolted in a used Bullet rear, regular diff with 3.73's. Same noise...



Now I know what you're thinking, stop complaining. Don't get me wrong, the car drives great. No squat, no dive, it's a beautiful thing. But it's not enjoyable. I can live with the 3rd and 4th gear rattle, but the rear gear noise is driving me nuts. If I knew it would be this loud I would have left the rear end alone.



Anyway, I'm thinking my next idea is to install some kind of Dynamat, or similar product. I know, 80 pounds later it'll only be a little less obnoxious.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Check the clearance between the parking brake cable and the torque arm brace. I had to clearance it up a bit so the cable wasn't touching at all. The differential will transmit noise right through that cable into the cabin. Once I did that it's silent.

For your gear rattle you can try Redline MTL. I put some in recently and my gear noise in 3rd and 4th is almost all gone. I was using synchromesh previously and really liked how it shifted. I don't see any difference in shifting (still great), but less rattle.

 

[cgornowich]

Update

Saleen304,

I used Mobile 1 synthetic ATF both times I've filled up the transmission so I'll drain it and try Redline MTl. That's pretty simple.

I'll check the torque arm brace and make sure it's notched enough to clear the e-brake. I had to notch the exhaust couplers to get them to clear the brace, and everything looked clear when I did the install, but it can't hurt to check again.

Can you hear your rear diff whining?

 

[Saleen304]

Saleen304,



I used Mobile 1 synthetic ATF both times I've filled up the transmission so I'll drain it and try Redline MTl. That's pretty simple.



I'll check the torque arm brace and make sure it's notched enough to clear the e-brake. I had to notch the exhaust couplers to get them to clear the brace, and everything looked clear when I did the install, but it can't hurt to check again.



Can you hear your rear diff whining?

Before I modified the bracket I could hear the diff whine. It almost sounded like it was coming from the front of the car and that was due to the ebrake handle transmitting the noise and it bouncing from the windshield back at me. When you hear it try grabbing on the ebrake handle and see if it reduces the noise. If so, that's your issue. Anyway, now it's mostly silent. I may hear a whisper every now and then, but I would expect that due to the Poly LCA bushings and heim joints.

 

[cgornowich]

Noise - not just whining

I finally had some time to spend in the garage and put the mustang up on in the air. With the trans in neutral I can spin the driveshaft a good 8-10 degrees before the "ring gear" stops it. Looks like the yahoos I had put the gears in were clueless. I guess it's time I figure out how to do my own gear install. If I've done my research correctly the gears that are in there (with about 45-50 miles on them) are probably junk now. So I'll get new gears (Yes, Ford Racing) and a dial indicator and try my luck. I can't possibly do as bad as the "redneck mechanic" that robbed me. The good news it is that I now know where the whine was coming from, my rear.

Updates to follow.

 

[Saleen304]

I finally had some time to spend in the garage and put the mustang up on in the air. With the trans in neutral I can spin the driveshaft a good 8-10 degrees before the "ring gear" stops it. Looks like the yahoos I had put the gears in were clueless. I guess it's time I figure out how to do my own gear install. If I've done my research correctly the gears that are in there (with about 45-50 miles on them) are probably junk now. So I'll get new gears (Yes, Ford Racing) and a dial indicator and try my luck. I can't possibly do as bad as the "redneck mechanic" that robbed me. The good news it is that I now know where the whine was coming from, my rear.



Updates to follow.

Some play like that is normal. Did your gear whine right after he installed them?

 

[Bingo]

So this is not directly related to the transmission, but have any of you guys experienced your muffler hangers sagging?

With the removal of the midpipe hangers that were on the 3650 crossbrace, it's putting all the weight of the exhaust on the rear mounts. And recently it started banging on the Panhard bar brace while driving.

Has anyone run into this problem? Would new hangers do the trick?

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[69Mach1-409]

Sometime in 2008 (I think) Ford did away with the midpipe hangers. So I don't think they are needed.

My Oct 07 build, 2008 had the hangers on the oem mount but did not have them on the OEM midpipe.

 

[cgornowich]

Noises

Good afternoon all, Here's an update to the "I hate my T56" story: I pulled the rear out of my car. The whole thing... I completely re-built it. Wow, that's a fun one to do and redo and redo. Now we have all new bearings (the bullet rear used the same pinion bearing as a GT500, now I know), a new Torsen T2, and new Ford Racing 3:73's. With the Griggs Torque arm, the aluminum bushing on the lower control arms, a Fays2 watts link (more spherical not bushings) and a Sam Strano adjustable sway bar. The whole thing is still noisy, but nothing like it was. Damn rednecks! So, the good news is I now know (almost) how to rebuild a rear end. The bad news is that the T56 still shift a little harder than my buddies Viper (his shifts like butter) and that "coffee can full of rocks" sound is still happening below 2k RPM, still only in 3rd and 4th gear. So, it obviously installer error (that's me). My question is this: has anyone had this problem and fixed it? I'm wondering if my bellhousing is misaligned. And if so, if I remove the transmission (I'm getting good at it) check the run out, install off-set dowels, and re-assemble. Is my RST clutch now worn into "a groove" and I need a new one? The RST was a couple nickels... Maybe I could switch to Spec 3? Anyway, the question here is "has anyone had this noise and fixed it?" or had it fixed? That counts too. Let me know. Thanks

Oh, and not to open a can of worms, but I do like the torque arm... Just sayin'.

 

[skwerl]

Easiest way to deal with the transmission being torqued to one side is to loosen the rear transmission mount bolts. Then start it up, set the parking brake, and then alternate between reverse and first revving it up a little and letting the clutch out just far enough to see/feel the engine torque to one side. Do that about 3-4 times each direction to get the trans to settle into the spot where it wants to be. Then shut it off, crawl under and retighten the mounting bolts.

 

[AutoXRacer]

The bad news is that the T56 still shift a little harder than my buddies Viper (his shifts like butter) and that "coffee can full of rocks" sound is still happening below 2k RPM, still only in 3rd and 4th gear. So, it obviously installer error (that's me). My question is this: has anyone had this problem and fixed it? I'm wondering if my bellhousing is misaligned. And if so, if I remove the transmission (I'm getting good at it) check the run out, install off-set dowels, and re-assemble. Is my RST clutch now worn into "a groove" and I need a new one? The RST was a couple nickels... Maybe I could switch to Spec 3? Anyway, the question here is "has anyone had this noise and fixed it?" or had it fixed? That counts too. Let me know. Thanks

Oh, and not to open a can of worms, but I do like the torque arm... Just sayin'.

So as I understand your post, you have two complaints:
1. Stiff shifting
2. Tranny buzz below 2K in 3rd and 4th

Do I have that right?

On my T-56 which I've had since 2013, the shifting stiffness/coarseness has been alleviated by transmission fluid. As long as there is no damage to your transmission internals. The best fluids I have experienced are Mobil 1 and Gibbs Racing oil (Driven). All the others I've tried, Royal Purple, Red Line, and Amsoil all made shifting rough. I've ead the Pennzoil synchromesh is good too.

The tranny buzz you experience is normal below 2K RPM. They all do it. I think its a combination of the steel bell housing and the twin clutch. My RXT is noisy at idle (clunky), but as soon as I press my clutch its super quiet. I avoid driving under 2K in 3rd and 4th.
Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about the buzz.

I had a similar buzz with the stock drivetrain and an aluminum driveshaft. I had buzz under 2K in the low gears.

You will drive yourself cazy if you try to "fix" it... lol
Its just a nature of the beast. All the Mustangs I've seen and heard all do it with the T-56 swap and twin discs.

Oh and BTW, don't compare the T-56 in a Viper with yours. Two different animals. One was OEM and the other (T-56 Magnum XL) is aftermarket.
The OEM version will always be smoother and quieter since it was designed specifically for that Viper and all the millions of R&D to make it perfect.

 

[skwerl]

Yeah, it's a high revving mod motor, not a diesel. It's not going to be happy lugging down at 1500rpm. My Chevy work truck with the Duramax is happy at 1500rpm but not my Mustang.

 

[cgornowich]

stiff shifting and rattle below 2k in 3rd and 4th

Hey AutoX, YES! That's exactly the problems. I know the internet is a confusing place with lots of contradicting viewpoints, but there's a number of people with the dual disc clutch that don't have that rattle (or buzz) at 2k and below. Some it happens at a lower RPM, some not at all. But I appreciate your input. So the solution is to use a different fluid (and another member suggested some and I bought it, but I haven't put it in yet) and either get used to the noise or get a different clutch.

So everyone, what clutch do you have and do you like it? My car is street driven most of the time, and I don't mind some noise, but I'd like a quieter clutch and decent engagement (I get stuck in Washington DC rush hour often enough it hurts). My saleen is 505hp at the wheels so I'm about 560 at the clutch.

I've heard Spec 3 is good, but the engagement is a little tight. Anybody else?