Vortech Install - Help with No-Start

FredB66

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I just finished installing a Brenspeed Vortech V3-Si non-intercooled system on my 2007 GT and would appreciate some help troubleshooting a no-start. The engine was completely stock and the install went fairly well. I did do some additional stuff while I had it apart and installed a new alternator, water pump, coil packs, and new OEM 55mm TB. I had the valve covers off to paint and the intake manifold off to install the IAT sensor relocation kit. The only misstep I can think of is forgetting change the fuel pump fuse (#41) from 15A to 30A for the included a Vortech Maxflow BAP. The fuse blew the first time I tried to start so I changed it. I subsequently ditched the BAP and stock FP in favor of a Walbro FP.

Turning the key on, the FP primes and when I try to start it cranks, stumbles for a brief second and that's it. Try again and then it just turns over with nothing. Part by part I've been returning the car to its original state with no change. The TB, coil packs, plugs and the tune have been brought back to original. I pulled the intake to see if perhaps I pinched a wire somewhere. I've got 12.3V at the FP connector with the key on and Forscan reporting 75 psi at the rail and then varying down to around 45 when cranking. Is that normal? If so, I think that checks out the fuse, relay, inertial cutoff, FPDM, and FP circuit. At Brenspeed's suggestion, I've tried disconnecting the MAF and the fuel rail pressure sensor. I've checked spark at a few different coils and it looks good. No DTC's reported. I just got Forscan this weekend so I'm still learning how to use it.

I've been fighting this for over a week and getting nowhere. The engine is essentially back to original except the 39 lb injectors, the Vortech compressor and the Walbro FP. Through the course of the install I touched a lot of wire and connectors so I've been checking everything I can think of looking for something loose or broken. Brenspeed hasn't offered much help though I do understand that its likely not their stuff that's the problem. I spent a long while on the phone with SCT trying to verify that the stock and custom tunes didn't get get jacked up somehow. Everything supposedly checks out tune-wise. Probably a long shot but I had to check the box. So, I'm running out of ideas. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 

stkjock

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to clarify - at this point it just cranks and no signs of ignition?

you say you get spark, have to verified that the injectors are suppling fuel?

any chance there's something blocking the intake tube or intake itself thus preventing air to the engine??
 

FredB66

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If I try again immediately after the stumble it just cranks with no sign of ignition. If I wait a few seconds and try again, it stumbles again. I pulled the spark plugs (new) and they were black on the tips so there is some combustion going on. I also tried removing the intake tube between the SC and TB just to eliminate the possibility of a blockage somewhere in the SC/duct/air filter. What's the best way to check if fuel is being delivered by the injectors? It seems like fuel is present initially then not.
 

TexasBlownV8

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The fuel injectors may be your issue. I've seen that happen before, where it won't start on a stock tune with the 39's or larger injectors.

Even with good 39's, if the tune isn't accounting for them, it can prevent starting... will stumble like you're describing.
Something else you might try, if you have a tune that is supposed to work with the setup (such as a vortech base tune), you might try that, and it should start with the 39's.
 

FredB66

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It behaves the same with the stock tune and the custom SC tune. The two things I haven't tried are returning to the OEM injectors along with the OEM FP. I'll give that a shot tonight.

I'm curious if there's a signal or lack of signal (bad sensor/broken wire) that would shut off the injectors just after start though I'd imagine something like that would throw a code.

What controls pressure KOEO fuel pressure?
 

07 Boss

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Have you tried to start it while holding the pedal to the floor and then releasing the pedal while it while still cranking? Could be that initial blast of fuel pressure is flooding it out and then it won't start till you clear the cylinders. Cranking the motor with the pedal down for a few seconds and then letting it up will start my car when it is flooded.
 

teeje

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Put it in clear flood mode. Key off, hold gas pedal to floor let crank for 5-10 seconds. Shut key off then try to start again. Odds are just running very rich for first start. If that doesn't work, take the plugs out and clean them. Good luck.

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FredB66

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I reinstalled the OEM FP and injectors last night and also tried the clear flood...no change. The engine is now completely un-modded so I circled back to an earlier suspicion, the tuner. I've got a SCT BDX tuner and when I updated the device and loaded the Brenspeed tune it came up with a 1300F error code. I've called SCT twice, and they've never heard of that code so they did the remote access checkout and said everything was ok, both with the tuner and the tunes. I called again this morning and insisted on exchanging for a new tuner. When processing the RMA the mystery error code popped up in their returns database. Device not compatible with vehicle. I've loaded tunes before with this tuner and never had a problem (or an error code) so something is definitely wrong. The SCT tech was very easy to work with and they are going to exchange it. I'm getting the tried and true X4 instead. I'm trying to not get my hopes up but this is the only thing I've found wrong since the start. Probably next week before I'll know.
 

teeje

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I reinstalled the OEM FP and injectors last night and also tried the clear flood...no change. The engine is now completely un-modded so I circled back to an earlier suspicion, the tuner. I've got a SCT BDX tuner and when I updated the device and loaded the Brenspeed tune it came up with a 1300F error code. I've called SCT twice, and they've never heard of that code so they did the remote access checkout and said everything was ok, both with the tuner and the tunes. I called again this morning and insisted on exchanging for a new tuner. When processing the RMA the mystery error code popped up in their returns database. Device not compatible with vehicle. I've loaded tunes before with this tuner and never had a problem (or an error code) so something is definitely wrong. The SCT tech was very easy to work with and they are going to exchange it. I'm getting the tried and true X4 instead. I'm trying to not get my hopes up but this is the only thing I've found wrong since the start. Probably next week before I'll know.
Hopefully it works out for you.

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Juice

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SCT hardware and software definitely has some glitches.
For example, I was trying to update my tune today and my x4 errored out, with "please return to stock" message after the failed flash. This actually means that there is a code or two stored. The fix for this glitch is to "Erase codes", and then flash.
I actually discovered the low battery voltage cause of a failed flash. Same as above, "please return to stock" message, and clearing codes did not work. Putting my battery tender on for an hour and I was able to update the tune without issues. You would think, the X4 would tell you battery voltage is low, but noooooo, "please return to stock". LOL And this ofcourse would have also failed and be followed by the "contact tech support" prompt.
So, is your battery fully charged? Just because it cranks, it may not have the voltage level required to flash. And this was the first time I ran into low battery voltage when trying to flash.
 

FredB66

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So, my BDX tuner ended up being bad. SCT confirmed the firmware was corrupted and replaced it with an X4. This took a few weeks thanks to FedEX and Ida. Re-loaded the tune, still no start.

Decided to go back to engine troubleshooting 101. I've got air, spark, fuel, next up compression and timing. Compression numbers are dismal. Cylinders 1 - 5 are around 100 psi, 6-8 are 180 psi. While I don't have previous numbers to compare to, I can't imaging it running as good as it did with crap numbers like that so something is clearly wrong.

On to timing and this is where I'm a bit lost. I'm using the FRPP hot rod cam installation instructions as a guide. The cam phaser bolts are loose and when I put the crank timing mark at 7:00 no timing marks are visible on the phasers, even after rotating the crank another turn or two. If I crank it to where the right bank R is visible around 11:00 and on the colored link, the left bank is also showing R but not lined up on the colored link and the crank mark is at 1:00. Same happens on the left bank when I crank it to get the L on the left bank on the colored link at 12:00, the right also shows L and the crank is again at 1:00. It appears that my timing is WAY off. Am I looking at this correctly? Also, plugs are out and belt is off and the effort to turn the crank changes quite a bit through a rotation. I'm interpreting all of this as something is really f'ed. I'm also at a loss as to why since other than removing the valve covers to paint, no part of the SC install messed with timing. Thoughts?


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hammeron

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The cam phaser bolts are loose

this has me concerned right here.

why would the phaser bolts be loose? you said car was stock before supercharger install and the only thing
you did was remove the cam covers.

seems to me that if you have been turning the engine over with loose phaser bolts, some damage may have been
done to the phasers themselves.

hopefully someone with more cam knowledge, can weigh in on that issue.
 

FredB66

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Sorry I wasn't clear. I loosened the phaser bolts following the steps of the cam installation procedure. I know they are one-time use, but I don't think you can count on the position of the timing marks unless they are loose. I think my next move it to remove the timing cover and look.
 

FredB66

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Well, I had a guy come over that's built these before and we walked through everything. I've got a bunch of pics. The timing was off by a lot, before I messed with the phaser bolts which was a bonehead move now that I have a better understanding of things. Anyway, time to start pulling things apart and see what went wrong.
 

DieHarder

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It's likely you have bent valves on the cylinders with low compression. You'll know as soon as you get the heads off. If you can get a scope would be worth your time scoping them first. Suggest asking your friend who knows these engines to help diagnose. All in all this is likely a few grand to fix it right.

Also, Highly Recommend reading thru this before pulling things apart or putting anything back together: https://iihs.net/fsm/?d=143
 

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