Wastegates for boost

[05stroker]

Well I have been searching and talking to people all night.

What is the better waste gate?

Tial 44 mm or a Precision 46 mm ?

Or, is there a better option?

Does it come down to price only between these two?

 

[JeremyH]

Cant go wrong with either, honestly any old watste gate would work fine and last forever since its going to be on the charge piping and not subjected to exhaust gas heat and back pressure. Might want to look into an adjustable one so you can fine tune max boost unless you plan to run a boost controller.

 

[05stroker]

Cant go wrong with either, honestly any old watste gate would work fine and last forever since its going to be on the charge piping and not subjected to exhaust gas heat and back pressure. Might want to look into an adjustable one so you can fine tune max boost unless you plan to run a boost controller.

Well here is the deal. I have a 12 rib 4,3 pulley on a Procharger F1a. It is seeing 24 psi at 6400 rpms,way to much for pump, but I like the low end power. I want to use the same pulley for a 16 psi street tune on 93 oct and a 24 psi race tune on C16.

Next question is how would a boost controller work with a Centri blower?

Do I even need a boost controller or is an adjustable WG better for me?

This whole WG setup is new to me and I know nothing about them. After some research though, I feel this is where my car is headed with the F1a and a need for a pump gas tune along with the need to keep the low end power I want on pump.

As loud as my car is I really don't think I will ever even notice the boost bleed off.

 

[05stroker]

Another question is, does a bigger wastegate make less sound when used on the same setup?

 

[BlackSunshine]

I would PM 19Cobra93(?) as he is running a wastegated Procharger F1 setup. I'm sure can give you alot of info regarding this.

 

[05stroker]

I would PM 19Cobra93(?) as he is running a wastegated Procharger F1 setup. I'm sure can give you alot of info regarding this.

I have, and he was very helpful, just covering all bases.

 

[JeremyH]

Not necessarily quieter it will flow better though. Easiest way or how I would do it is get the wastegate with spring for your lowest boost setting so if thats 16psi get a 16 psi spring. Use the manifold as your boost source for the wastegate control. Then use a simple manual boost controller to up the boost when you want to run more or do a race tune at a higher boost level boost.

Or they make ones that are adjustable and you can adjust the psi using the same spring, something like this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-4...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2ebb579975

 

[mr. anderson]

sounds similar to the setup with the D1SC I bought from Entrenched. I am running a 3.75 pulley but only want 8 psi on the street and am not ready to push more, but if I do. 10 psi will be all I go on the stock bottom end.

aem truboost controller with a PTE PW46 wastegate should work for you. the truboost controller has the benefit of being a vacuum/boost gauge along with being the boost controller. the gauge is pretty darm accurate too( within .05 psi measured) and with this setup it has a safety feature you can setup in case of an overboost situation it falls back to the spring pressure you have in the wastegate.

you will want to go with the manual boost controller method for the truboost controller for the situation you are wanting. you can set up an 'a' and a 'b' setting with the truboost controller. for setting 'a', you should be able to install the red and green springs in the wastegate which is set or 15 psi, with the boost controller though I would set the spring pressure setting to 13 psi and see where it maxes out with boost. don't change the duty cycle from stock (its 10 percent) and that should be close for the 16 psi. you can play around with the spring pressure setting to get your target boost.
for setting b you will have to get a little more creative. I would definately talk with AEM, (the electronics division). but if you aren't gonna run it a lot in race mode with 24 psi. I think you could switch the spring pressure setting in the controller to 21 and see how the boost controller handles it. you will also have to play with the duty cycle also, increasing it in small steps. if you get an oscillation in boost. you have over compensated the settings for the springs installed and will have to dial the settings back. at that point, if it won't adjust with stable boost, you will have to swap out the springs in the waste gate to the the natural, yellow and blue springs, which equal 22.5 psi and adjust the b setting to around 21 to start with and play with it and the duty till it reaches it desired PSI.

a couple good instruction videos for the aem truboost controller are here, watch all four videos :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fmg9MhyMDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arIwCFbjHSQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWmIhKJmtbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZbxK9uPwnU

 

[05stroker]

Not necessarily quieter it will flow better though. Easiest way or how I would do it is get the wastegate with spring for your lowest boost setting so if thats 16psi get a 16 psi spring. Use the manifold as your boost source for the wastegate control. Then use a simple manual boost controller to up the boost when you want to run more or do a race tune at a higher boost level

That is how I am planing to do it. I will have two diffent tunes. One for pump and another for race gas.

sounds similar to the setup with the D1SC I bought from Entrenched. I am running a 3.75 pulley but only want 8 psi on the street and am not ready to push more, but if I do. 10 psi will be all I go on the stock bottom end.

aem truboost controller with a PTE PW46 wastegate should work for you. the truboost controller has the benefit of being a vacuum/boost gauge along with being the boost controller. the gauge is pretty darm accurate too( within .05 psi measured) and with this setup it has a safety feature you can setup in case of an overboost situation it falls back to the spring pressure you have in the wastegate.

you will want to go with the manual boost controller method for the truboost controller for the situation you are wanting. you can set up an 'a' and a 'b' setting with the truboost controller. for setting 'a', you should be able to install the red and green springs in the wastegate which is set or 15 psi, with the boost controller though I would set the spring pressure setting to 13 psi and see where it maxes out with boost. don't change the duty cycle from stock (its 10 percent) and that should be close for the 16 psi. you can play around with the spring pressure setting to get your target boost.
for setting b you will have to get a little more creative. I would definately talk with AEM, (the electronics division). but if you aren't gonna run it a lot in race mode with 24 psi. I think you could switch the spring pressure setting in the controller to 21 and see how the boost controller handles it. you will also have to play with the duty cycle also, increasing it in small steps. if you get an oscillation in boost. you have over compensated the settings for the springs installed and will have to dial the settings back. at that point, if it won't adjust with stable boost, you will have to swap out the springs in the waste gate to the the natural, yellow and blue springs, which equal 22.5 psi and adjust the b setting to around 21 to start with and play with it and the duty till it reaches it desired PSI.

a couple good instruction videos for the aem truboost controller are here, watch all four videos :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fmg9MhyMDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arIwCFbjHSQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWmIhKJmtbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZbxK9uPwnU

Thanks for the info. That is a nice setup. I dont think for my use I will need all of that though. I am going to set the WG at 16 psi with the spring. From there, again for my use, couldnt I just kill the vac to the WG and run the pulley full out on the race tune? Now if I switch to the 3.9 (27-30psi) then I would need something like the AEM unit to controll the peek boost as well.

I think for now all I need for the 4.3 pulley would be a on/off switch or solenoid for the vac line going to the WG, or even a simple in line valve with a dial. With the 16 psi spring in the WG I would have 16 psi with the valve open and 24 psi with it closed.


Now, on to waste gate quality. What is the difference in them all? I am seeing unit ranging from $80 - $400 for the 44mm. I assume if the unit was to fail it would go to full boost though and that would be nice time to have the AEM unit in place.

What about something as simple as this since there is no heat.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/44MM-Turbo-...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item589222a4e1

 

[JeremyH]

The difference has to do with materials cast vs billet made in usa or overseas. Also the nicer ones have stainless inconnel valves which again is largely overkill for you since it wont see any real heat.

Yeah I agree you dont need a fancy boost controller for your needs.

Yes you could just disconnect the vac line, a better method to make sure it stays fully shut is hook it up to the top port of the wg this way boost pressure from the manifold and spring pressure keeps it closed. When you want the boost pressure to overcome the spring you use the side port (normal operation).

The gate you posted would work just fine thats a nicer replica of a turbosmart style gate.


You could either hook the vac line to the top port when you want full boost or you could get a simple dial/valve style manual boost controller to fine tune it.

 

[05stroker]

The difference has to do with materials cast vs billet made in usa or overseas. Also the nicer ones have stainless inconnel valves which again is largely overkill for you since it wont see any real heat.

Yeah I agree you dont need a fancy boost controller for your needs.

Yes you could just disconnect the vac line, a better method to make sure it stays fully shut is hook it up to the top port of the wg this way boost pressure from the manifold and spring pressure keeps it closed. When you want the boost pressure to overcome the spring you use the side port (normal operation).

The gate you posted would work just fine thats a nicer replica of a turbosmart style gate.


You could either hook the vac line to the top port when you want full boost or you could get a simple dial/valve style manual boost controller to fine tune it.

I would assume if the waste gate was to fail the car would see full boost if I was using the side port or normal operation?

 

[JeremyH]

I would assume if the waste gate was to fail the car would see full boost if I was using the side port or normal operation?

It could fail shut but its not likely, its actualy more likely to not get full boost if it failed. All there is as far as moving parts is a valve, a spring and a diaphram. All of which if they were to fail or get damaged would likely result in the wastegate leaking and not staying closed.

 

[05stroker]

It could fail shut but its not likely, its actualy more likely to not get full boost if it failed. All there is as far as moving parts is a valve, a spring and a diaphram. All of which if they were to fail or get damaged would likely result in the wastegate leaking and not staying closed.

Ok, I was looking at it backwards. I was thinking if it failed while I was on my pump gas tune at 16 psi , it would see full boost of 24 psi.

Now if I want to run my 3.9 pulley and keep boost down to 24 psi on the top side. Could I just leave the 16 psi spring in the WG and adjust the manual controller up a little at a time till I see 24 psi?

 

[JeremyH]

Ok, I was looking at it backwards. I was thinking if it failed while I was on my pump gas tune at 16 psi , it would see full boost of 24 psi.

Now if I want to run my 3.9 pulley and keep boost down to 24 psi on the top side. Could I just leave the 16 psi spring in the WG and adjust the manual controller up a little at a time till I see 24 psi?

Yup. The manual controller restricts pressure to the wastegate so pressure can be higher in the manifold than what your telling the wastegate.

 

[05stroker]

Yup. The manual controller restricts pressure to the wastegate so pressure can be higher in the manifold than what your telling the wastegate.

Thanks for all the help. I think I know how to do this now.

 

[JeremyH]

No prob, look foward to seeing your setup! I def would have went this route had I gone centri.

 

[05stroker]

No prob, look foward to seeing your setup! I def would have went this route had I gone centri.

Now I just have to decide where to mount it!

 

[JeremyH]

Lol yeah I guess where ever there is room before the maf.

 

[05stroker]

Lol yeah I guess where ever there is room before the maf.

I am really cramped for space before the IC without having it in the engine bay is one of the reasons I wanted this smaller unit.

Oh well time to go stare at the car! LOL

 

[Bobby]

so you can run a boost controller in the car and change it on the fly like turbo guys do.