WE SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT NOTHING BUT THE RPM ACT!!!!!

[Pentalab]

100% agree but also remember that the issue was never resolved. EPA put that regulating back in the 70s and now is hitting the enforcement hard. It wasn’t fair just cut and dry. You couldn’t mod a factory vehicle. What they caused is for everybody to say F-that shit and now we here. I think what needs to be done is clear amendments to account for proper levels or control of emissions and still allow the industry to grow. If tail pipes emissions readings are cheap or not that shouldn’t be the conversation because is about the air conservation, but you said it, it cost too much so not important? Lol

A good seat down from leadership that cares and putting good regulations for street legal mods to meet minimum emissions and other mods for competition would be great. Imagine daily driving powerful emissions legal cars that you can mod for track purposes. Much how we do it now but legal with fair law enforcements. I am not talking spending $90K and then not been able to touch it. I talk buying a regular S197 and slapping a emissions legal forced induction system. Is hard to imagine that a whipple 2.9 or 3.8 could not reach reasonable emission for street use.

I even compromise to have special registration and pay extra for it with a stipulation say I that is only driven a certain mileage, Just like I do, and still be able to install mods.


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The car could be belching out bad stuff in the exhaust, and can still pass regs, since nobody tests emission's at the tail pipe. A whipple 2.9 or 3.8 is a non issue, not in the equation. They just plug into the OBD port, and cats are turned on...or off, plus any other parameters that need to be turned on.

Even if they tested at the tail pipe, are they gonna temp install a sniffer into each exhaust on a dual exhaust setup ? Do they test at WOT, with car in neutral, I doubt it. The most they would do is check for emissions at idle, or maybe a max of 1.5 k rpm in neutral. The entire process is flawed, and non productive. 99.99 % of the vehicles on the road will easily pass any OBD emissions readiness test. I can see testing cars every 2 years for safety related items like brakes and headlights, and headlight alignment, rust, structural damage, a hole in the exhaust or muffler, but that's about it. But no, they wanna haul in 100% of the vehicles on the road, just to catch the .01% that may be non emissions compliant.

Catalytic converters have been around for a long time, decades, so the smog issue..is now a non issue. As long as the car has oem cats, or an aftermarket catted X or catted H, good enough. The rolling coal diesel eng trucks are a side issue, that can easily be dealt with.

 

[AboStangster]

Hey all

Like I said earlier. Measuring tailpipe emissions was done in Ontario, Canada for 20+ years before being shelved.

It was successful for the initial 5 years getting the beaters off the roads, but after that it became a government money grab.

It was scrapped after this current Conservative party was elected as it was no longer cost effective for them to continue the program.

It did drive a constant revenue stream to the auto shops who registered into the program though.

Its stupid to stipulate how you have to achieve the emission conditions as long as you do and can pass the tests.

You should be able to do whatever you want with your car that you want to do, so long as you pass the emissions test. The nuts and bolts are meaningless.

 

[Juice]

[QUOTE="AboStangster, post: 2502110, member]

Its stupid to stipulate how you have to achieve the emission conditions as long as you do and can pass the tests.

You should be able to do whatever you want with your car that you want to do, so long as you pass the emissions test. The nuts and bolts are meaningless.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. But they can only enforce emission devices present and "appear to be" (PA wording of smog inspection) functioning. If the pcm monitors are present and complete, and you pass the visual inspection, its a PASS.
This is what we got.

 

[tjm73]

NYS inspection (OBD-II) outside NYC metro (they have separate tests from what I understand) is similar. It's a visual check that it's there and appears functioning combined with a plugin system monitor readiness check. As long as the system is not throwing codes and the monitors return readiness responses and everything else looks to be present and functioning, it's a pass. .

 

[luillo]

Don't misconstrue my arguments or opinions as being good with the state of things in the EPA. I am not ok with some things they do, but I am ok with some other things they do. The diesel guys have blatantly skirted or outright broke the law. They did exactly what the law says they were told where not supposed to do and promoted others to do the same. Then they went out and flaunted those actions and acted like complete fucking morons and forced the EPA to start enforcing existing laws. They made themselves targets. Now they are being made an example of. They brought it on themselves. The rest of us need to see what's happening and adjust ourselves accordingly.

Got it brother and you are correct. Even big corporations like VW outright lied on their line of product and got caught heavy.


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[luillo]

I just truly hope the RPM act pass so manufactures continue creating parts. That puts the blame on the customers at least.

I just also saw Livernoise advertising CARB EO parts and had a small argument on their YouTube channel. They have been developing parts to meet the requirements but not all manufactures will have the resources or funds to pay whatever is the fee or tax to produce this items.


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[eighty6gt]

You should be able to flash the car, as long as nothing is defeated and OBD/readiness says all is well. Don't even need to do a visual. This isn't the case?

 

[Juice]

You should be able to flash the car, as long as nothing is defeated and OBD/readiness says all is well. Don't even need to do a visual. This isn't the case?

Not completely.
You could, in theory, remove cats, disable the catalyst test. If only the cat monitor is incomete, and.the other 7 monitors are complete, you pass the scan but fail the visual. And inspection stations can lose their license if they pass cars they should not.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

I wouldn't blame the diesel guys per-say, id blame their tuners. You can delete the dpf and all that nonsense and make great power without rolling coal. Rolling coal is a byproduct of running way too much fuel. TBH my rig that had the dpf and egr cooler was in the shop once a year having it all replaced because of cracks and other bullshit that shouldn't happen. This is the main reason most people i know delete this stuff.

 

[eighty6gt]

Not completely.
You could, in theory, remove cats, disable the catalyst test. If only the cat monitor is incomete, and.the other 7 monitors are complete, you pass the scan but fail the visual. And inspection stations can lose their license if they pass cars they should not.

Thats not what I meant. You can't disable anything. Must work like factory.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

Don't know if anyone has come across these videos or not? But might find these from Lund Racing and Livernois motorsports that discuss the EPA restrictions and RPM act as informative

 

[luillo]

Don't know if anyone has come across these videos or not? But might find these from Lund Racing and Livernois motorsports that discuss the EPA restrictions and RPM act as informative

I did had a back and fort with Livernois rep on one of their videos and if I recall good they never acknowledge the importance of supporting the RPM act. I felt during the whole conversation or messaging that they care about producing CARB E.O. Parts to bow down to the EPA more than fighting for the cause.

I felt as if they are down to do as they are told than fighting for what is right.


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[06 T-RED S/C GT]

I did had a back and fort with Livernois rep on one of their videos and if I recall good they never acknowledge the importance of supporting the RPM act. I felt during the whole conversation or messaging that they care about producing CARB E.O. Parts to bow down to the EPA more than fighting for the cause.

I felt as if they are down to do as they are told than fighting for what is right.


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So would you rather have a performance tune which meets EPA/CARB standards or have no performance tune at all? Because if the EPA has it's way, it may just end up only being a matter of time before all aftermarket tuning shops are required to produce calibration tuning flies which meet EPA/CARB E.O requirements. However, the video posted above from Lund Racing, does in fact support the importance of the RPM act.

 

[luillo]

So would you rather have a performance tune which meets EPA/CARB standards or have no performance tune at all? Because if the EPA has it's way, it may just end up only being a matter of time before all aftermarket tuning shops are required to produce calibration tuning flies which meet EPA/CARB E.O requirements. However, the video posted above from Lund Racing, does in fact support the importance of the RPM act.

I would definitely love have powerful cars within reasonable compliance. I think road driven cars allowed to use approve performance parts is reasonable but competitions cars shouldn’t be in the conversations at all.

I would love to daily drive my compliant car with bolt ons and swap all out parts for the track.


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[tjm73]

The Livernois video tells me they are positioning themselves to "play by the rules". That's how they see themselves surviving and making profit where they can.

There are fights you can win and fights you can't.

When a car is removed from street use completely, I am against the EPA actions. If it is still used on the streets, you gotta stay compliant.

 

[Pentalab]

This is getting beyond stupid. Whether it has oem cats..or hi-flow cats, who cares ? LT's are more efficient than oem exhaust manifold, again who cares.

If you have a blower on the car, how often is it actually used on the street...a few seconds here and there. I can feather the gas pedal, so it's not quite into boost..and it pulls like a mofo on the hwy. 30-50 mph on the hwy comes damned fast, so does 0-100 mph...or 50-75 mph. With the blower on, it comes up a lot faster. The hi flow cats are doing their job.

As far as I can see, they are making a big issue about .... nothing. It will cost a fortune to enact compliance..and for what ? A non issue to begin with.

'They' would be better off to slap a carbon tax on folks with their wood burning stoves and fireplaces.

 

[Juice]

This is getting beyond stupid. Whether it has oem cats..or hi-flow cats, who cares ? LT's are more efficient than oem exhaust manifolds.........

........'They' would be better off to slap a carbon tax on folks with their wood burning stoves and fireplaces.

Apples to oranges. What does a wood burning stove have to do with EPA/CARB regs? Are you modding your stove? Are stoves regulated?

You NEED heat in the winter, but you do not NEED a car.

 

[luillo]

Apples to oranges. What does a wood burning stove have to do with EPA/CARB regs? Are you modding your stove? Are stoves regulated?

You NEED heat in the winter, but you do not NEED a car.

He was been sarcastic not literally using stove on cars.

The point is that we other support the movement or sell our hobbies. How about that?

EPA doesn’t really care about clean air or they would of done real homework to be fair all across.

It is al politics and the only way tot fight is with representation starting with us and these forums not bowing down.

Yes, with this bunch of mentality that we should quit we might losses our right to mod our cars for sport!!!


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[tjm73]

Nobody is saying you can not mod your car. They are saying you can not disable/remove the emissions control devices and functions. That is all. If you have to do that to mod your car, you should rethink what you're doing. You can still improve performance without disabling/removing the emissions control devices and functions.

Just think about it. If they are only doing an emissions systems readiness test (like Upstate/Western NYS), you can do anything including making it run dirty as long as the system is ready and no faults are lit up. The control systems just need to be present and functioning without fault codes. Everything else does not matter.

And the EPA is already regulating wood stove emissions.

 

[luillo]

Nobody is saying you can not mod your car. They are saying you can not disable/remove the emissions control devices and functions. That is all. If you have to do that to mod your car, you should rethink what you're doing. You can still improve performance without disabling/removing the emissions control devices and functions.

Just think about it. If they are only doing an emissions systems readiness test (like Upstate/Western NYS), you can do anything including making it run dirty as long as the system is ready and no faults are lit up. The control systems just need to be present and functioning without fault codes. Everything else does not matter.

And the EPA is already regulating wood stove emissions.

That’s what is currently proposed or in act. The bad thing about that is EPA going after manufactures to stop the developing of parts to ensure that prices happens. It don’t matter it you have the control items in the car.

There is many ways to go about it. I germany they are very strict but as long as you pass emissions and have no lights and have catalytic you good. Not legally but they don’t know and don’t care.

Or we can actually be clean and still been able to mod. High performance pets legal. Some sort of CARB E.O. Concept but for everybody and not so strict.


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