WE SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT NOTHING BUT THE RPM ACT!!!!!

[Juice]

Did you say safety inspection? I grew up in Philadelphia and then lived in New Jersey before moving to South Florida. We always had inspections. Being in the business, it would be great if we had a Mandated inspection here in Florida. Few reasons. 1st it would get all the junk off the roads. 2nd it would naturally increase productivity at the Auto Shops choosing to be part of the Inspection process. At times I am bewildered at what is driving on the roads here in South Florida. Most would be an automatic Inspection Failure and you would get a BIG RED 24 Hour Sticker on the windshield. Basically putting a bullseye on the vehicle. When the POPO would see it you get pulled over and the vehicle gets impounded.

You should see NY and VT vehicles. Rust piles. How they pass any inspection, I got no clue. lol

 

[luillo]

I disagree that this is "communist" stuff. If anything it's "you're too selfish to act on your own so we'll define what you can/can't do for you" stuff. For a performance engine they should define tailpipe emissions. Because that's want matters. For evaporitive fuel emissions define what it is, how to measure it and what the levels should be limited too. Most of this is already defined. I think the aftermarket and buying public would for the most part respond in kind. And I am confident the industry would have a resurgence to levels higher than we've seen.

I live in a pretty rural area and our air quality is improved since I was a kid. Cars are way cleaner now than ever before and that's a good thing. We've all seen the side by side pics of California pollution in different time periods. They are the extreme example, but we all benefited from these laws even if we didn't/don't like them very much.

We're several decades into this so it's past time to establish meaningful attainable guidelines and let the aftermarket innovate and deliver the performance we desire with the cleanliness we need.

Elaborate on me been selfish. I buy a $40K car and I don’t really own it enough to modify and I’m selfish?

Remember what the intention of this regulation is. “To ensure clean air” but they don’t care about that because they are not defining what are the limits or what can or can not be done.

So please explain and elaborate on that statement.


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[eighty6gt]

I reiterate, the government can only do this the easy way, and the easy way is to draw a hard line. The cost of 100,000 auto shops installing a dyno built in china, staffing it, the adminstration of a program all the way up to the POTUS with everyone eating steaks and building houses and having kids, is materially worse for "the environment" than just tidily banning something that is easily detectable.

In not so many years the world as we see it now is going to be unrecognizable. Don't be alarmed.

 

[luillo]

I reiterate, the government can only do this the easy way, and the easy way is to draw a hard line. The cost of 100,000 auto shops installing a dyno built in china, staffing it, the adminstration of a program all the way up to the POTUS with everyone eating steaks and building houses and having kids, is materially worse for "the environment" than just tidily banning something that is easily detectable.

In not so many years the world as we see it now is going to be unrecognizable. Don't be alarmed.

Agree but a radical change is not of any good. A gradual change is expected and imminent.


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[JEWC_Motorsports]

Did you know in Texas you can take a brand new car, drop a pre 1984 engine in it and you no longer have to worry about emissions. Emissions are based on engine year, not car year. Isn't that stupid?

 

[luillo]

Did you know in Texas you can take a brand new car, drop a pre 1984 engine in it and you no longer have to worry about emissions. Emissions are based on engine year, not car year. Isn't that stupid?

Yeah but this new issue could change that quick. They are linking the clean air act with VIN numbers so anything that didn’t came with that car VIN number is illegal according with the proposition.

That will change everything


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[JEWC_Motorsports]

This was the fight 4 years ago and here we are again.

 

[luillo]

This was the fight 4 years ago and here we are again.

I saw that. I hope is just another hit but this time are you tracking that they went after known tunners (Lund, VMP, etc.) trying to hit hard working main sources now


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[JEWC_Motorsports]

They already put the N Gauge out of business.

 

[tjm73]

Elaborate on me been selfish. I buy a $40K car and I don’t really own it enough to modify and I’m selfish?

Remember what the intention of this regulation is. “To ensure clean air” but they don’t care about that because they are not defining what are the limits or what can or can not be done.

So please explain and elaborate on that statement.

I'd be happy too.

First, dial back your butthurt.

Second, That statement was and is a generalization. The vast, vast, VAST majority of us (again a generalization) have demonstrated again and again that we will choose the simplest way to try to find more power that most always involve removing or disabling some or multiple emissions control systems. The EPA has an agenda, like it or not, and they have determined how they will go about it. They wrote the rules. We largely don't abide by them. So they are now starting to enforce the rules that have been on the books for decades.

Cliff notes, "we" are being selfish in how we mode our cars by making them dirty and coming up with all sorts of rationalizations about why we should and can do whatever we want regardless of the rules we don't want to follow. Well, someone got a bug up his/her ass about getting rolled in coal or seeing coal rolling and the EPA is hot on our shit now.

 

[luillo]

I'd be happy too.

First, dial back your butthurt.

Second, That statement was and is a generalization. The vast, vast, VAST majority of us (again a generalization) have demonstrated again and again that we will choose the simplest way to try to find more power that most always involve removing or disabling some or multiple emissions control systems. The EPA has an agenda, like it or not, and they have determined how they will go about it.

Sooooooo......."we" have proven that we can't be trusted to do the right thing on our own without be pushed in that direction.

Is not so much to been butt hurt but when you refer to a post with “YOU” and now “WE” makes it a little personal on top of calling people selfish.

I am well aware of all we could do to make cars faster and so but you are way off topic. If this thread continues its course and we don’t get represented and have a fair voice, we will have no goods to play with. There is just so much we could do for HP without force induction, nitrous or even developed parts.

The EPA main point “clean air” is an excuse for some hidden agenda. They don’t offer solid data to based their claims, just a blanket statement to eliminate 100% of anything they don’t see feet for us to buy.

Even Lund has offered data that will crush their “clean air act” and its claims.


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[tjm73]

Even Lund has offered data that will crush their “clean air act” and its claims.

Does that test vehicle do so in a non-compliant configuration? The answer is yes. And so.. the results just don't matter.

This is like complaining about the rules of basketball because you want to run the ball down the court without dribbling. It's faster and more efficient for sure, but the rules forbid it. You need to focus on how to, and even if you can, get the rules changed to the game.

 

[tjm73]

Yeah but this new issue could change that quick. They are linking the clean air act with VIN numbers so anything that didn’t came with that car VIN number is illegal according with the proposition.

That will change everything

There is no "new issue". Only enforcement of existing rules.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

There is no "new issue". Only enforcement of existing rules.

Not true. Every state has their own set of rules and in Texas the rules are based on county and population.

 

[luillo]

Does that test vehicle do so in a non-compliant configuration? The answer is yes. And so.. the results just don't matter.

This is like complaining about the rules of basketball because you want to run the ball down the court without dribbling. It's faster and more efficient for sure, but the rules forbid it. You need to focus on how to, and even if you can, get the rules changed to the game.

That is why I created the thread. To ensure we all get aware because no matter how the test was accomplish if the results target the essence of the argument, WHO CARES how it was accomplished if it meet the intent to produce less emissions.

Is like you are in agreement with the much unclear/unfair regulations that they are trying to implement. The point is that some of this so called illegal mods are cleaner than factory or we could still produce clean emissions and also mod our cars but they don’t care or don’t know about it.

Just out of curiosity, are you ok and fine with the government imposing blanket regulations like this one or you believe this community should have good representation and those regulations should be fair and flexible?

Again is not about been hurt for me. I’m not sure if you care about this situation enough or if is whatever at the end of day day for you.


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[Juice]

Measuring tailpipe emissions is not cost effective.
A visual inspection and obd scan IS, and it is the "hard line" the EPA drew, and enforcable.

And remember, the tuners who got into trouble were turning emission shit off. That is what drew attention, not fine tuning fuel and spark. SCT stayed in business by making the person editing the calibration sign an agreement not to disable or bypass emission componenets. The PRP software still has full access to the tune, nothing was disabled in the software.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Play by the rules, and modding is ok. Yet there are those who just dont get it or give a fuck about the laws. " Must Remove Emission Parts at all cost........that is selfish.

 

[luillo]

Measuring tailpipe emissions is not cost effective.
A visual inspection and obd scan IS, and it is the "hard line" the EPA drew, and enforcable.

And remember, the tuners who got into trouble were turning emission shit off. That is what drew attention, not fine tuning fuel and spark. SCT stayed in business by making the person editing the calibration sign an agreement not to disable or bypass emission componenets. The PRP software still has full access to the tune, nothing was disabled in the software.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Play by the rules, and modding is ok. Yet there are those who just dont get it or give a fuck about the laws. " Must Remove Emission Parts at all cost........that is selfish.

100% agree but also remember that the issue was never resolved. EPA put that regulating back in the 70s and now is hitting the enforcement hard. It wasn’t fair just cut and dry. You couldn’t mod a factory vehicle. What they caused is for everybody to say F-that shit and now we here. I think what needs to be done is clear amendments to account for proper levels or control of emissions and still allow the industry to grow. If tail pipes emissions readings are cheap or not that shouldn’t be the conversation because is about the air conservation, but you said it, it cost too much so not important? Lol

A good seat down from leadership that cares and putting good regulations for street legal mods to meet minimum emissions and other mods for competition would be great. Imagine daily driving powerful emissions legal cars that you can mod for track purposes. Much how we do it now but legal with fair law enforcements. I am not talking spending $90K and then not been able to touch it. I talk buying a regular S197 and slapping a emissions legal forced induction system. Is hard to imagine that a whipple 2.9 or 3.8 could not reach reasonable emission for street use.

I even compromise to have special registration and pay extra for it with a stipulation say I that is only driven a certain mileage, Just like I do, and still be able to install mods.


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[luillo]

Great point made here and this is all I was talking about. Watch it from 4:30 for the main point.

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[tjm73]

Don't misconstrue my arguments or opinions as being good with the state of things in the EPA. I am not ok with some things they do, but I am ok with some other things they do. The diesel guys have blatantly skirted or outright broke the law. They did exactly what the law says they were told where not supposed to do and promoted others to do the same. Then they went out and flaunted those actions and acted like complete fucking morons and forced the EPA to start enforcing existing laws. They made themselves targets. Now they are being made an example of. They brought it on themselves. The rest of us need to see what's happening and adjust ourselves accordingly.

 

[Juice]

100% agree but also remember that the issue was never resolved. EPA put that regulating back in the 70s and now is hitting the enforcement hard. It wasn’t fair just cut and dry. You couldn’t mod a factory vehicle. What they caused is for everybody to say F-that shit and now we here. I think what needs to be done is clear amendments to account for proper levels or control of emissions and still allow the industry to grow. If tail pipes emissions readings are cheap or not that shouldn’t be the conversation because is about the air conservation, but you said it, it cost too much so not important? Lol

A good seat down from leadership that cares and putting good regulations for street legal mods to meet minimum emissions and other mods for competition would be great. Imagine daily driving powerful emissions legal cars that you can mod for track purposes. Much how we do it now but legal with fair law enforcements. I am not talking spending $90K and then not been able to touch it. I talk buying a regular S197 and slapping a emissions legal forced induction system. Is hard to imagine that a whipple 2.9 or 3.8 could not reach reasonable emission for street use.

I even compromise to have special registration and pay extra for it with a stipulation say I that is only driven a certain mileage, Just like I do, and still be able to install mods.


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This will not happen, as it requires new rules/lawsfor a few. Some provisions already exist. The law was not strictly enforced, until now.