What seats are you running?

[jayel579]

So, for tracking a stock car, what are the thoughts of using the Corbeau bar and harness?

I will have one for sale in a few weeks if you are interested.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Have you guys worked with the Takata harnesses at all?

Harness- Takata (Drift series or 4 point race one)

Takata is simply a private label version made by Schroth.

But with more JDM.... yo.

Takata seats are private label versions made by COBRA, too.

The Takata "Drift2" is the same as the "Rally 4" belt from Schroth (ignoring the small differences in the pictures, which are taken at different times), with the same drawbacks.

I much prefer the real 6 point harnesses over that Rally/Drift stuff, which have no anti-submarine belt. A lot of HPDE/track groups won't let you use a 3/4 point old style racing harness like that, and require a 5/6/7 point harness with a sub belt - unless you stick with OEM belts. Just be ready for some pushback from the Tech inspectors with that drift/rally4 harness with some groups.



And while they look similar in small internet pictures, the Cipher (aka: "Automotive Lifestyle Revolution, yo") and Corbeau S197 harness bars are significantly different in design. The Corbeau design uses a 1-piece main bar, whereas the Cipher is a 3-piece design on the main cross piece. Please don't buy one over the other simply based on color alone....

Cheers,

 

[moostang09]

Not sure what all the "yo's" are for???

I like the look of the Takata.

I'm not going to run any HPDE events.

I wasn't only looking at the Cipher bc it was black but for saving the $100 too.. But if the Corbeau is that much better than the cipher I will go with that.

Takata seats are too expensive IMO.

 

[csamsh]

Not sure what all the "yo's" are for???

I like the look of the Takata.

I'm not going to run any HPDE events.

I wasn't only looking at the Cipher bc it was black but for saving the $100 too.. But if the Corbeau is that much better than the cipher I will go with that.

Takata seats are too expensive IMO.

JDM, yo! vtec kicked in, yo!

 

[moostang09]

So what about this set up....

Seats-
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com...-shopping-v2&gclid=CPWavumR5rwCFeRi7AodxEAAZQ

Harness-
http://www.americanmuscle.com/cobeau-3in-5pt-harness.html

Harness Bar-
http://www.americanmuscle.com/corbeau-harness-bar-0512.html

Terry what are your thoughts on pads for the Harness?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Not sure what all the "yo's" are for???

I like the look of the Takata.

I'm not going to run any HPDE events.

I wasn't only looking at the Cipher bc it was black but for saving the $100 too.. But if the Corbeau is that much better than the cipher I will go with that.

Takata seats are too expensive IMO.

---From another post----

1) Corbeau Forza Wide seat
2) Corbeau 5-point cam-lok harness
3) Corbeau harness bar

Okay, serious question: You say you're not going to run any HPDE events, and that's fine. Exactly what ARE you going to be doing with the kit you list? Autocross? Race-inspired daily driver? Show car? Hard parking with your friends on Thursday night (yo!)? What you choose to do is up to you, but you may find that the "right" or "best" choice will vary with the intended use.

The seat: EXACTLY how well does this seat fit you? How much wiggle room do you have at the hips, ribcage and shoulders? Where does the end of the seat bottom hit in relation to your legs? When seated in a driving position, is there any pressure being placed on the bottoms of your legs? Hints: a "little tight" is FAR better than "a bit roomy" in terms of seat fitment. Also, if the seat bottom is likely to pinch off circulation (ends right behind the knee, LOTS of padding height difference between your butt and the edge of the seat), you will be miserable on longer drives/runs. As is noted by the LMR website, this is an entry-level seat, which is not a bad thing in and of itself. It's a steel-framed seat, which means weight and a slight hit in rigidity compared to a 'glass, kevlar or carbon-fiber shell style seat. Also, being a bottom-mount only seat, means that getting just the right height and pitch is a non-trivial task, as you really should support the full span of the seat, and not just use a "stack of washers." I also could not find any SFI or FIA homologation info, leading me to suspect that it is not compliant, should you want to do HPDE stuff in the future. LMR is selling them for $269, but if you were to do a price comparison for the Corbeau Forza Sport, which seems to go for around $319, the extra $50 buys you an FIA-homologated seat, with side-mount capability, which is MUCH easier to get "just right.". They list is as "generally fitting up to a 38-inch waist," so I have no idea if that would be snug on you, or if you would swim in it. If I were you, I would find a local stocking dealer and go sit in one, and try to imagine sitting in it for an hour or so straight. Would you be happy? Miserable? Your seat should fit just like a pair of shoes. Not too snug, not too loose, and you have to feel comfortable in them. Easiest way to check seat sizes is to do some personal measurement. Sit on the edge of a coffee table, and push a thick book (standing vertically) up against each hip. Measure the space between them. Measure the width of your ribcage, and the width of your shoulders when sitting in an upright (not slouched) driving position, as well as the height off the coffee table. Then, take those measurements and start looking at the manufacturer's websites, most all should have measurement comparison charts. Look for one that is 1/4-1/2" or less wider, and where the vertical measurements make sense. Then, go sit in one.

2) Harness: For the most part, if a harness set carries either the FIA or SFI tag, and is a 5-, 6-, or 7-point set, I'm good with it. Looks like a nice, basic cam-lok harness set at a very reasonable price. There are "better" belt sets with "better" hardware, but that all comes at a price, and may well not be worth it.

3) Harness bar: Assuming you're NOT planning on doing HPDE stuff with it (and I include drifting in that category due to the speeds involved), it really just comes down to a matter of quality of construction, and whether you trust the attachement points to support your weight in the event of things going tits-up. I did have to chuckle at the advertising crap attached to that product, though: "Provides additional chassis stiffness." Um, no.

If you can let us know exactly what you want out of the kit you're selecting, we'll be able to give much better advice.

 

[moostang09]

To be honest I want a good looking kit that will be used for driving on the weekends, maybe the occasional parking lot auto x, I visit the drag strip but like my previous post mostly a better look than stock interior. To my knowledge and my expectancies the harness bar will be used for the sole purpose of attaching the harness to. I don't want it for "improved chassis stiffness" or to save me from going tits up. Bc, knock on wood, my car won't be rolling anytime soon. I don't put myself in situations for that to happen.... I'm not going to be road racing or drifting it.


I just want to know if what I'm reading is correct and I'm not buying shit products but at the same time I want some sort of quality to where if I do want to road race it is ok for a weekend warrior type of thing. I don't want a full bolt in cage bc it's not really needed for my current setup/situation.

This is all more of a want type of thing. I realize this thread is in a racing sub forum but rather thanks start a new thread to ask questions that would fit in here I decided to pop my head in and ask away.

Hope that help clears it up.. Also where can I test a race seat at? Just to sit in it and get a feel for it...

Thanks yo.

 

[moostang09]

Good notes on the seat measurement! I appreciate that, thank you!

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Thanks yo.

LOL!!! That just made my day!

To be honest I want a good looking kit that will be used for driving on the weekends, maybe the occasional parking lot auto x, I visit the drag strip but like my previous post mostly a better look than stock interior. To my knowledge and my expectancies the harness bar will be used for the sole purpose of attaching the harness to. I don't want it for "improved chassis stiffness" or to save me from going tits up. Bc, knock on wood, my car won't be rolling anytime soon. I don't put myself in situations for that to happen.... I'm not going to be road racing or drifting it.

Okay, then if the application is primarily cosmetic, disregard everything about weight, tight fitment (a little looser is more comfortable on the road) and FIA or SFI homologation. One thing I'll throw out there for you to think about is what your "normal" seat base to seat back angle is. If you normally recline, you are going to HATE a fixed-back racing bucket. The one and only reason for a seat like that is to all but weld you to the car, allowing you to "feel" every little thing the car can communicate to you, and to lock you in place to the point where you essentially CAN'T move around in the seat. You may be better served with a "tuner" seat rather than a "competition" seat. Also, the fixed-back seats normally have VERY high side bolsters (the part next to and outside of your lap and legs), and that can make it a gymnastic exercise to get in and out of.

Also, there is one legality that you should be aware of! NONE of the 5-, 6- or 7-point harnesses, and I don't care how good or expensive they are, are DOT-compliant. If there's no DOT tag on the harness, the local po-po could (if they were looking for an excuse) write you up for a laundry list of violations starting with "failure to wear a seat belt." If you're primarily street-driving the car, you might be better off with the stock 3-point, or at least retaining the option to run the 3-point. Also, the 5-point stuff is a major PITA to get all cinched up into if all you're doing is running to the store for a loaf of bread. Not trying to steer you away if that's the "look" you're after, but I just want you to be able to make an informed decision.

I just want to know if what I'm reading is correct and I'm not buying shit products but at the same time I want some sort of quality to where if I do want to road race it is ok for a weekend warrior type of thing. I don't want a full bolt in cage bc it's not really needed for my current setup/situation.

There's horses for courses... Corbeau makes a decent product, nothing inherently wrong with anything I've seen from them. Can you get a better product? Yes. Will you also pay more (sometimes a LOT more?) Absolutely. I use a Sparco Circuit II containment seat, and it runs nearly four times what you're looking at. Different application, different priorities. Realize, though, that when you're talking about "road racing" (and I'm including HPDE in that catch-all) there are serious technical requirements that have to be met. For the HPDE stuff, if it's stock and in good condition, it's fine. Generally speaking, though, if you start changing safety gear (like harnesses) over from stock, then you MUST comply with the competition section technical rules for mounting. If you have a fixed-back seat, and it doesn't have a current FIA sticker, they very well may want you to have a back-brace mounted on the seat. That brace, in turn, has to mount to a rollbar... Slippery slope. With a reclining seat, though, they generally let that pass if you're using the stock seat belts. How much impact that makes on your decision is up to you, I just wanted to throw that out there.

This is all more of a want type of thing. I realize this thread is in a racing sub forum but rather thanks start a new thread to ask questions that would fit in here I decided to pop my head in and ask away.

I totally get where you're coming from, and will say "no sweat." We've had a couple of real whack-jobs pop in recently, to this forum is a bit on edge, but you've honestly got nothing to worry about with your posts.

Hope that help clears it up.. Also where can I test a race seat at? Just to sit in it and get a feel for it...

Call Corbeau (web search for the number), and ask them who a stocking dealer in your area might be. Then call the dealer and verify that they have the model(s) that you are interested in actually on-site. It could be you'll have a bit of a drive on your hands, but there's honestly nothing worse than getting a seat that doesn't fit right. The amount of money you'll save buying online instead of in person will absolutely VAPORIZE if you have to return one seat and order another. Also, a race seat comes in a pretty large box, and it costs a small fortune to ship, so don't be surprised if you spend an additional $50-80 to get it to your door. With a "local" dealer, you'll pay the tax, but not the shipping, and it could come out cheaper.

 

[moostang09]

All good info and much appreciated! Maybe I have some more things to consider before dropping the money on seats and such...


I will say I was told by the guys over at takata that the drift 2 series was dot approved... I think it even says that on their website..


I appreciate all of your help and will go research some more setups and make a decision based off of that and what you have said!


Oh and when I drive my seat is just about straight up and down... I like to be at full attention to the road while driving.... None of this gangsta leaning for me....

Yo!

 

[csamsh]

Yo the Schroth profi ASM harness is pretty road legal (check with your laws of course) and is specifically listed by a couple hpde orgs. as being the only 4-pt they will pass through tech. If you want to use a harness on the road, perhaps it's worth a look.

 

[claudermilk]

Terry and Dave, thanks for the as-usual detailed responses. Much of what I've heard is indeed theory & hearsay. It's good to hear it from the horse's mouth so-to-speak--from guys really pushing the cars who have to think about this stuff.

I do have the factory Recaros already, so the shoulder harness holes are there; I also am not looking at getting an aftermarket reclining seat, or fixed back one because of that. Happily for me, the OEM Recaros fit me like a glove--these are the best, most comfortable seats I've ever had (I and I loved the Probe's seats).

I have been looking at the CoolTech brackets for the lap belts (http://www.cooltechllc.com/Boss/Boss_ClipSet2Seat.shtml) and the Wolfe Craft crotch strap bracket (https://www.wolferacecraft.com/detail.aspx?ID=297), then a 5 or 6 point camlock harness. It is sounding like the Corbeau bar will be my best best since having a roll bar in a street car is not a great idea. That Cipher one is new to me, but I don't get a warm fuzzy from it, so Corbeau is the only option.

I had a 5-point harness in my old Probe GT and it made a huge difference, so I am completely familiar with the benefits of having a proper harness. I am actually surprised at how well the stock 3-point and Recaros are working so far, but a proper restraint system will just improve things more--and I have found that fatigue is indeed an issue running a track day.

I much prefer the real 6 point harnesses over that Rally/Drift stuff, which have no anti-submarine belt. A lot of HPDE/track groups won't let you use a 3/4 point old style racing harness like that, and require a 5/6/7 point harness with a sub belt - unless you stick with OEM belts. Just be ready for some pushback from the Tech inspectors with that drift/rally4 harness with some groups.

...and that answers my next question. So it sounds like I am definitely best off sticking with plan A & getting a proper 5/6 point belt than looking into these 4-point ones.

So one last question: 5-pt vs 6-pt. What's the advantage of the additional strap in our application (street car doing HPDE)?

 

[2013MustangGT]

Just to add some information. I started out using my Recaro seats and 4 point safety harness and that was all good for doing HPDE at ECR. However, when I start NASA HPDE this was no good. I could stick with the stock seat and the 3 point seats belts and be fine. I already had a roll bar install for safety purposes, so I went all the way with new seats and 6 point safety harness. I did this realizing that I am going to be doing this for years to come.

I only wished I had some direction before I started spending money on things I couldn't use. It's nice to have a shop like Vorshlag that already knows the rules for NASA and SCCA.

 

[csamsh]

So one last question: 5-pt vs 6-pt. What's the advantage of the additional strap in our application (street car doing HPDE)?

comfort for your manly bits is a huge plus to a 6-pt

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I have been looking at the CoolTech brackets for the lap belts (http://www.cooltechllc.com/Boss/Boss_ClipSet2Seat.shtml) and the Wolfe Craft crotch strap bracket (https://www.wolferacecraft.com/detail.aspx?ID=297), then a 5 or 6 point camlock harness. It is sounding like the Corbeau bar will be my best best since having a roll bar in a street car is not a great idea. That Cipher one is new to me, but I don't get a warm fuzzy from it, so Corbeau is the only option.

Those are some MIGHTY expensive angle-brackets! I would bet you could fab an equivalent for maybe 10% of that. Also, it's really not that hard to drill the holes for eyebolts. Even if you want to go "back to stock" at some point in the future, you're really only looking at three or four small holes which can EASILY be plugged, plus two slits in the carpet, also easily repairable if it comes to that. When you put force on a cantilevered bracket like you were showing, it's really less than ideal, since they can bend and yield.

Also, there's absolutely no issue from a safety standpoint with a 4-point rollbar in a street car. All the tubing is well behind the seat, and well away from any bits of you that may be flailing around in a wreck. A CAGE, on the other hand... Not so bueno. I'm not a huge fan of harness bars, but I honestly can't say with authority that they pose a safety risk. I just look at the force vectors and kind of say "hrm...." if you follow. A big ole' jungle-gym behind the seats, anchored solidly, though is another matter. Granted it's just an "eyeball engineering" thing, and I do tend to over-build, but...

I had a 5-point harness in my old Probe GT and it made a huge difference, so I am completely familiar with the benefits of having a proper harness. I am actually surprised at how well the stock 3-point and Recaros are working so far, but a proper restraint system will just improve things more--and I have found that fatigue is indeed an issue running a track day.

Amen, sing it to the choir!!

...and that answers my next question. So it sounds like I am definitely best off sticking with plan A & getting a proper 5/6 point belt than looking into these 4-point ones.

So one last question: 5-pt vs 6-pt. What's the advantage of the additional strap in our application (street car doing HPDE)?

comfort for your manly bits is a huge plus to a 6-pt

Got it in one! A 5-point has the strap heading straight south from the buckle, right above the old "wedding tackle" which for some may be uncomfortable. A 6-point (particularly if it uses a T-bar design, like Schroth) puts the straps up against your thighs, and is MUCH more comfortable.

 

[neema]

comfort for your manly bits is a huge plus to a 6-pt

Got it in one! A 5-point has the strap heading straight south from the buckle, right above the old "wedding tackle" which for some may be uncomfortable. A 6-point (particularly if it uses a T-bar design, like Schroth) puts the straps up against your thighs, and is MUCH more comfortable.

I have seen some nasty, nasty photos of rally drivers who have crashed with 5 point harnesses and done some serious damage to their family jewels. There's no need to post that here, but if you can opt for the 6 point, I would do it. Even if you're not planning on putting your man parts to work, some serious pain can be averted.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Call Corbeau (web search for the number), and ask them who a stocking dealer in your area might be. Then call the dealer and verify that they have the model(s) that you are interested in actually on-site. It could be you'll have a bit of a drive on your hands, but there's honestly nothing worse than getting a seat that doesn't fit right. The amount of money you'll save buying online instead of in person will absolutely VAPORIZE if you have to return one seat and order another. Also, a race seat comes in a pretty large box, and it costs a small fortune to ship, so don't be surprised if you spend an additional $50-80 to get it to your door. With a "local" dealer, you'll pay the tax, but not the shipping, and it could come out cheaper.

Great advice once again, Dave. And for the poster in Mansfield, Texas - Vorshlag is his local stocking Corbeau dealer. We are also a dealer for and stock products from Cobra, Schroth, Crow, Sparco, UltraShield and Kirkey. And we are a dealer for OMP, Racetech, Recaro, Takata and MOMO, among others. I have a lobby and warehouse with seats, seats and more seats - as well as race cars in our shop that we are always building with even more seat options to try out.

He can come "test sit" in about 12 different seats at the moment, as we just got a pallet in. Sitting in a seat before you buy it is KEY and the shipping costs for any seat is HEINOUS via UPS ground (which is how they will send a single seat, figure $150 per seat that way!). We order pallets of seats and it saves significantly on shipping, per seat, and we eat all of the shipping costs for walk-in/pick-up orders. But yes, he would have to pay sales tax, heaven help us...

Unlike a lot of "Drop ship only" resellers we stock a lot of what we sell. Why? Because it helps us know the products better when people have questions, and for seats it allows customers to sit in a wide variety of seats to know what feels right for them. To see the materials, touch the frames, test the harness buckles, turn the latches. And removes any wait times.

The Corbeau Forza Sport FIA seat does indeed look and function better than the slightly less costly Corbeau "Forza", and its only a few bucks more. Both of these seats can be bottom mounted (usually cheaper) or side mounted (after you add side brackets) - and the latter method allows you to adjust the tilt angle of the seat to fit your driving position better, at a higher cost.

The COBRA seat brand is better quality and uses nicer materials than the Corbeau, generally, but you need to compare apples to apples. When you do and the Cobras aren't THAT much more. Sure, the COBRA Imola or Suzuka (which we have in stock, along with the Evolution) are extremely nice Kevlar compostie fixed back racing seats with FIA certs and light weight. They can ONLY be side mounted and usually take some fiddling to get the height low enough for tall folks, but we can always make them work if the car is here.

One model I wanted to point out (that we just got our hands on yesterday) to compare against the Corbeau Forza/Forcza Sport is the COBRA Monoco Pro. This is also a steel framed seat with side and bottom mount options, also has the FIA certification, but the materials and look is a good bit nicer.

The COBRA Monoco Pro (above at left) is a $399 seat vs a $319 seat for the Forza Sport (above at right). I've got them sitting side by side in our lobby right now (the Monoco Pro is not on our website yet but will be by the end of the week) and it is a noticeable difference in quality, to me. Maybe you might not notice the difference, or care. For the money its hard to beat Corbeau, across their line-up of steel framed and composite fixed back and tilt back sport seats. Stop by and take a look if you are in or near Dallas. Or look for a stocking dealer in YOUR area, and use them to not only sit in their demo seats but to buy your seat from. Or you can roll the dice, use the mail order house and hope you fit the seat you get. Just know that the ~$100-150 shipping fee on the return leg is gonna sting if you don't fit in the seat they send.

http://www.vorshlag.com/index.php?cPath=279

If you see anything on that link above we have installed it here and/or have it in stock. We are adding new seat models every month, but only add new products as we get them in here at our shop. We won't just slap some "stock photo" on a new product entry because the seat models change from time to time, and we want to take pictures ourselves to show the current stitching, fabrics, and style.

Cheers,

 

[dontlifttoshift]

I have seen some nasty, nasty photos of rally drivers who have crashed with 5 point harnesses and done some serious damage to their family jewels.

I posted that link in this thread. It is worth noting that the driver was wearing a 6 point harness. The belts were not tight enough according to the article.

 

[csamsh]

One model I wanted to point out (that we just got our hands on yesterday) to compare against the Corbeau Forza/Forcza Sport is the COBRA Monoco Pro. This is also a steel framed seat with side and bottom mount options, also has the FIA certification, but the materials and look is a good bit nicer.

TERRY!!! Don't sell my seat man!!

 

[moostang09]

Thanks for the info Terry! I may just stop by and try a few seats out. I'm a big guy so I hope one of them fit! Lol.