Whats needed for a 5.0 swap?

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06whipple

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What does ceasing production imply as far as availability goes in the years to come? Are shortblocks going to start skyrocketing in price then?

I would hope that Ford would make a better kit for swapping in a 5.0, or maybe a non supercharged aluminum 5.4 crate option. If they aren't making the 4.6 block anymore there has to be an affordable option for when a 4.6 needs replaced...
 

pacettr

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Our Ford rep happened to be here today so I asked him. The 5.4L is still being produced in both its variations (iron 5.4L 3v, aluminum 5.4L 4V), but the aluminum 4.6L has been discontinued.
:beer:
FRPP made any progress with getting the Inst. Cluster adapter? If the total cost involved could be kept under $10k and all you do is buy a kit from FRPP...I can see the 5.0 swap being an extremely popular swap. Especially for the early S197's that are getting up there in mileage and have tired/blown motors

Cool thing about a swap like this is the legal aspect. Won't the 5.0 satisfy any/all the EPA bullshit when it comes to motor swaps?

good question. I have a 2008 Expy EL that I'm looking to trade for a 2012 Expy EL with the 5.0 or 6.2 in it.

Word on the street has the 6.2 being the new high-end Expy motor and the 5.0 as the base motor with a torque tuning (sub 400 HP power)...which would be nice. Ford needs to keep a big family tow vehicle still available in the line-up.


If Ford keeps the 5.4 3v in the 2011/2012 Expy I'll keep what I've got.

See above :highfive:
 

19COBRA93

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I would hope that Ford would make a better kit for swapping in a 5.0, or maybe a non supercharged aluminum 5.4 crate option. If they aren't making the 4.6 block anymore there has to be an affordable option for when a 4.6 needs replaced...

FRPP can only go so far when offering a crage engine. You may be interested in swapping it into an S197, but the next guy might want to swap it into an old hot rod. They offer the engine and it's vital controls, and leave the rest up the the buyer. Swapping the 5.0L into an S197 isn't going to be a big deal once the first couple guys do it and figure out the tricks to it.

The demand for a non supercharged 5.4L is so minimal that it wouldn't make sense from a business standpoint. There are enough parts out there for the few guys looking to build something like that, that they can just build their own. You can buy an aluminum 5.4L block, fill it full of whatever internals you want, throw on some Ford GT heads and you're halfway there.

As for the future of 4.6L demands, there are plenty on the used market to choose from. The pushrod 302 block hasn't been produced since 2001, and they're still super easy to find, and can usually be found for free.
 

KungFuHamster

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arent the new 5.0 and 6.2 still considered modular motors? and if not, then what would one consider them?
 

19COBRA93

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FRPP made any progress with getting the Inst. Cluster adapter? If the total cost involved could be kept under $10k and all you do is buy a kit from FRPP...I can see the 5.0 swap being an extremely popular swap. Especially for the early S197's that are getting up there in mileage and have tired/blown motors

Cool thing about a swap like this is the legal aspect. Won't the 5.0 satisfy any/all the EPA bullshit when it comes to motor swaps?

good question. I have a 2008 Expy EL that I'm looking to trade for a 2012 Expy EL with the 5.0 or 6.2 in it.

Word on the street has the 6.2 being the new high-end Expy motor and the 5.0 as the base motor with a torque tuning (sub 400 HP power)...which would be nice. Ford needs to keep a big family tow vehicle still available in the line-up.


If Ford keeps the 5.4 3v in the 2011/2012 Expy I'll keep what I've got.

Like I mentioned above, FRPP will only take the crate engine program so far. They leave the rest up to the customer to build. FRPP's target customer for the crate engine are the Hotrod guys. They really want to see that motor in the old project cars. That's what they've designed their kits around. If you're looking to swap it into an S197, they've made it still possible with the same engine mounts and trans bolt pattern, and a few other things, but otherwise they expect the customer to finish the rest on their own. I wouldn't expect a more detailed kit at all. I think what's offered currently is all we're going to get. Although, I have heard they're still working on an electric PS conversion kit, but that's definitely hearsay and not fact.

I can't say what's coming for 2012 (because I simply don't know), but for 2011 the Expedition is getting the Flex Fuel 5.4L 3V. I'd expect the 5.0L and 6.2L to be close behind, so possibly 2012 or 2013. The Expedition isn't going away for sure, but the engine lineup change will be later than the F150.
 

19COBRA93

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arent the new 5.0 and 6.2 still considered modular motors? and if not, then what would one consider them?

They're not. The 5.0L is the Coyote, and the 6.2L is the Boss (not related to the Boss Mustang), and that's really all the designation they get. They're not considered Modulars.
 

Kuro!

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I love all the people on here saying its going to cost you $15k or more...

It's like a lot of people telling me it was going to cost 9k-10k for my 5.4 swap... I bet this swap can be done for a lot less than everyone thinks. Just going from how my swap went you should seek out the following...

Get the wiring diagrams and pinout information As i'm sure your aware by now, the entirety of the car is reliant on the stock 05-09 ECU

Will the stock 3650 bolt up? Is it an 8 bolt flywheel?

How is the fuel system? You could probably retain your stock feed lines up into the engine bay by aftermarkets rails with a -8an line with an aeromotive quick disconnect adapter.

How are you going to mount this motor? I wouldn't be surprised if the 5.0 used 05-09 s197 motor mounts because the 2010 retains the 05-09 4.6 and has the same chassis as the 5.0 2011.

I really think this will be a lot easier than people think...

NOTE: Make friends with people on this forum... can't tell you how many times my ass was saved by Mike, Sam, SD or Steve.
 

19COBRA93

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Will the stock 3650 bolt up? Is it an 8 bolt flywheel?

How is the fuel system? You could probably retain your stock feed lines up into the engine bay by aftermarkets rails with a -8an line with an aeromotive quick disconnect adapter.

How are you going to mount this motor? I wouldn't be surprised if the 5.0 used 05-09 s197 motor mounts because the 2010 retains the 05-09 4.6 and has the same chassis as the 5.0 2011.

I really think this will be a lot easier than people think...

NOTE: Make friends with people on this forum... can't tell you how many times my ass was saved by Mike, Sam, SD or Steve.

Agreed.

Trans bolt pattern is the same, so yes. Also, same 8 bolt crank pattern so pick your favorite flywheel and clutch.

Return style fuel system (if using the FRPP kit) is no big deal, that shit was designed 50 years ago, you've got lots of options.

Motor mount pickup points are the same so bolt up your '05-10 brackets and drop that bitch in.
 

Kuro!

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Agreed.

Trans bolt pattern is the same, so yes. Also, same 8 bolt crank pattern so pick your favorite flywheel and clutch.

Return style fuel system (if using the FRPP kit) is no big deal, that shit was designed 50 years ago, you've got lots of options.

Motor mount pickup points are the same so bolt up your '05-10 brackets and drop that bitch in.

Well there you go Sam. This forums lucky to have you!
 

Germeezy3

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Judging by the new F150 engine choices, the Expedition should follow for 2012 and send the 5.4 3V to its rightful place in the engine graveyard. Personally I won't miss it! The 5.0 makes more power and more torque in truck format as does the 3.5 F150 Ecoboost engine. And with the F150 the 6.2 is only available in the higher trim levels so I expect the Expedition to follow.

With the 5.0 having DI already baked into the engine, I could see a boosted DI 5.0 easily being the next GT500 engine.
 

Ken04

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But if you trade, you get the new body style. I know some hate it and would love the new engine but with the old body style. If that's the case then go for the swap. There's someone on another board planing on putting the new 5.0 in a fox.

I'm with you, do not like the newer body style nearly as well. For what it would cost to go w/2011 5.0 you could have a 302 forged stroker and F/I. And have the best looking Mustang ever made.
 

3.73-11

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Awesome kit op great job bummer you can't run the front sway bar but I'm sure an option will present itself in time. Just curious but I didn't think these cars made that much whp on just 6psi I thought vortech/ati and other sc kits we're only making in the mid-upper 500whp on 6psi?
 

HAPPY HIPPO

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dont trade in your mustang for the new 5.0 it is an ugly disgusting looking mustang almost as crappy looking as the 74 mustang 2! ugly plastic rear bumper!
 

RickG9

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Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I was wondering if anyone has yet to successfully swap a 5.0 into a 05-09 car using a 2011/12 factory PCM and harness?

I know a bunch of people have done the swap into SN95's and Foxes using the FRPP kits, but they present several problems for the S197 if you intend to keep stock features like PATS, factory gauges, a/c, etc. I'm also aware of the S197 projects that are more like race cars than modded streeters, at least in terms of systems or electronics that had to be bypassed or fabrication needed to complete the project.

I've read a lot of threads from searching on the subject, and while it has been interesting to see what people are doing with the FRPP controls pack and crate 5.0, no one has really ever answered any of the common questions on making this swap happen and function like a stock 2011 car. The controls pack is a great starting point for hot rodders building pre-s197 cars, but it was not designed nor intended for use in the 2005+ cars so IMHO it is not a realistic option for these cars unless you don't mind dumping a lot of the things that make these cars so much nicer to drive everyday than previous models.

I can think of several reasons why Ford would not invest in making this swap simple or less expensive for the s197 owner, at least for the present time, but I can also see there being enough interest in swapping the 5.0 from a wrecked 2011 into an older s197 that surely someone somewhere has done it or is working thru it.

There were some good points made in this thread about the cost of swapping vs just going with a forged/built 3V, but as these cars age the cost of the 5.0 in salvage yards is going to come down, particularly if you factor in the production numbers of the F150 5.0, while the cost of building an NA 4.6 3V into something with 400+ hp isn't exactly cheap, and even tho it's easy enough to top 400 hp with FI that adds $4-$6k to the build cost and neither option offers the efficiency of the 5.0, plus the 5.0 is already over 400 hp stock, it's just a better starting point to work with.

Considering many older s197 are now reaching a point where it's impractical to just add bolt-ons or FI to a tired engine and those owners are faced with the cost of a performance rebuild or buying a lower mileage salvage yard engine to build on, the cost of a salvaged 5.0 (or even the crate 5.0 @ $6500) for that 1st 100hp gain starts to look a little more doable. That is of course, entirely dependant on how difficult it would be to swap a 2011 PCM/harness into the older car.

So how about it, anyone have any success in this area or have some reliable info on the possibility? Someone has to be 1st :beerdrink:
 

GT_8907

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its an electronics nightmare! i am currently doing one and man o man the 5.0 motor has different sensors that dont seem to be compatible with the S197 stock Cluster. working out the bugs still but so far have purchased a; stand alone eng man. sys., stand alone fuel sys., full exhaust, tubular k mem. im still using my same trans and clutch but like i said having electrical issues. Anybody trying to do this be prepared for a challenge its not just a swap and go trust me i thought the same thing but shes turning out to be a beast!! any help with electrical issues would be appreciated lol for those who are savi on it
 

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