You may change your opinion of Livernois...

[94tbird]

I think people seem to forget there is a loss of $6-18K here almost instantly. I agree there should be no bashing (unless its deserved) until all the info is out.

No one should have to lose money like that with no answer as to why(not even mark). Something or someone fucked up and it would help us all to know why.

Trust no one!

you did........oh wait that was because of MMR...hehe

 

[lostsoul]

you did........oh wait that was because of MMR...hehe

hey now.. no bringing up MMR without an F in front of it ;-).. besides, I only lost money with MMR after tuners F'ed me over for a year or 2. Then I found out the hard way that I got a used block or they were on crack and over bore new blocks. People say live and learn.. but the only thing I'm learning is to trust no one! Its getting to a point where you have to do everything yourself and if you cant then pick up a new hobby. If that's the case then everyone suffers.

 

[94tbird]

hey now.. no bringing up MMR without an F in front of it ;-).. besides, I only lost money with MMR after tuners F'ed me over for a year or 2. Then I found out the hard way that I got a used block or they were on crack and over bore new blocks. People say live and learn.. but the only thing I'm learning is to trust no one! Its getting to a point where you have to do everything yourself and if you cant then pick up a new hobby. If that's the case then everyone suffers.

hey i wanna do it myself but i dont have the machines to prep a block or balance a rotating assembly lol

 

[05stroker]

Well after reading this one I still fell the same as this that I posted on another forum.

I just read this whole thread and WOW! Fist off Mark , I can see where you are tired of putting out the money just to see failure after failure , so you have my simpathy for sure . As for Mike at Livernois , I think this is a stand up guy and has a pretty good team with him now . The way it seems now is that the wrong head gaskets were used and that was the ultimate failure hear. If that is the case then I fell the company that installed the gaskets and heads is liable here . That being said Mark is owed a set of cams or value equal to it .
I can understand why this thread was posted . There are all these people pointing fingers and at some point you have to start thinking that one of them is right and you cannot always make that call . You are sitting there wondering is this guy right , or is it this guy , and so on and at some point you have to go with what you feel at the time . Some people really need to put ther selves in the same position before starting to talk shit on you . Good luck Mark , I wish you the best on finding a solution to being the one that has to shell it out for shit in return !

Billy

 

[Lower ET Than u]

Well after reading this one I still fell the same as this that I posted on another forum.

I just read this whole thread and WOW! Fist off Mark , I can see where you are tired of putting out the money just to see failure after failure , so you have my simpathy for sure . As for Mike at Livernois , I think this is a stand up guy and has a pretty good team with him now . The way it seems now is that the wrong head gaskets were used and that was the ultimate failure hear. If that is the case then I fell the company that installed the gaskets and heads is liable here . That being said Mark is owed a set of cams or value equal to it .
I can understand why this thread was posted . There are all these people pointing fingers and at some point you have to start thinking that one of them is right and you cannot always make that call . You are sitting there wondering is this guy right , or is it this guy , and so on and at some point you have to go with what you feel at the time . Some people really need to put ther selves in the same position before starting to talk shit on you . Good luck Mark , I wish you the best on finding a solution to being the one that has to shell it out for shit in return !

Billy

Lots of people HAVE put themselves in Marks position as he isn't the only one to lsoe a motor. Plenty of us have lost motors, some motor after motor after motor. His fault her fault natures fault fords fault. The blame game can be played by anyone at any time. I personally have lost 13 motors over the course of the past 10-12 years. When you push the envelope, the envelope pushes back

There are 3 stories to every situation, marriage, and facet of life. His ,hers, and the truth. In this case Consumer, Vendor and the truth.

Mark probably has more money than anyone else on this site and probably on most sites he visits and he spends the money he has. Just because you buy the best part on the market doesn't make it the right part for the application. You have to take a step back and do your research. It seems mark blindly trusts everything that is told to him. Unfortunately that is the wrong way to go about things. the research must be done. no one is going to do it for you. everyone will tell you their shit is better than someone else's and their shit don't stink.

You want help from a vendor don't go posting this shit in public places unless its a last resort. This situation clearly was not resolved and was not at a last resort when this thread was started. If I were livernois id do what i can to help resolve the situation, pay if it was my fault, not pay if it wasn't and cut ties with the customer completely.

 

[Lower ET Than u]

It also does seem like mark likes to air the dirty laundry out on the internet before all avenues have been traveled with the vendor he is currently having a problem with. This is nothing new and many people who have followed mark and the chevykiller from the start know this. The people that know everything from the start sympathize with mark but most no longer empathize with him.

The people who bandwagon and jump to conclusions, and blame the vendor or the consumer right away are ones who know nothing, have never been in the situation, and probably never will. That is just stupid

 

[05stroker]

Lots of people HAVE put themselves in Marks position as he isn't the only one to lsoe a motor. Plenty of us have lost motors, some motor after motor after motor. His fault her fault natures fault fords fault. The blame game can be played by anyone at any time. I personally have lost 13 motors over the course of the past 10-12 years. When you push the envelope, the envelope pushes back

There are 3 stories to every situation, marriage, and facet of life. His ,hers, and the truth. In this case Consumer, Vendor and the truth.

Mark probably has more money than anyone else on this site and probably on most sites he visits and he spends the money he has. Just because you buy the best part on the market doesn't make it the right part for the application. You have to take a step back and do your research. It seems mark blindly trusts everything that is told to him. Unfortunately that is the wrong way to go about things. the research must be done. no one is going to do it for you. everyone will tell you their shit is better than someone else's and their shit don't stink.

You want help from a vendor don't go posting this shit in public places unless its a last resort. This situation clearly was not resolved and was not at a last resort when this thread was started. If I were livernois id do what i can to help resolve the situation, pay if it was my fault, not pay if it wasn't and cut ties with the customer completely.

I agree to a point but the fact is everyone should get what they pay for . After awhile you get tierd of it and this is the result . There most likely is more than one person that is to blame here . Most of us do understand that power pushes back . I have been there a few times . I do it myself now , and when something happens I know where to place the blame . I look at it like this , I pay someone alot of money to do it for me and there is a chance it will fail , or I do it myself and if it fails , I build it again and I learned something and still saved a little . As for Mark talking about his builds and changeing stuff , I can see why he does . Everytime I am down I fell the need to come back bigger and stronger . Yes . it leeds to more downtime and more issues , but that is yet another part of the quest to go faster . Im not saying that Mark is wrong or right for posting this . I just think I know why he did it .

 

[Lower ET Than u]

After awhile you get tierd of it and this is the result

When you get tired if it you get out of the sport, you don't sink more money into it. Racing is a lose lose situation for 95% of all racers. A bottomless money pit

As for Mark talking about his builds and changeing stuff , I can see why he does . Everytime I am down I fell the need to come back bigger and stronger . Yes . it leeds to more downtime and more issues , but that is yet another part of the quest to go faster . Im not saying that Mark is wrong or right for posting this . I just think I know why he did it .

There in lies the problem. you have to be happy with what you have and make that work for you before you even consider going bigger and better. if you cant work out the bugs and glitches at a lower power level, your only compounding your issues at a higher power level.

 

[Black Tooth Grin]

It also does seem like mark likes to air the dirty laundry out on the internet before all avenues have been traveled with the vendor he is currently having a problem with. This is nothing new and many people who have followed mark and the chevykiller from the start know this. The people that know everything from the start sympathize with mark but most no longer empathize with him.

The people who bandwagon and jump to conclusions, and blame the vendor or the consumer right away are ones who know nothing, have never been in the situation, and probably never will. That is just stupid

Sadly, that is the bottom line.

I have given Mark my fair share of shit, and it has all been in good fun because, well.. he is fun to fuck with and doesn't take it well at all. Which makes it even more enjoyable. But it comes down to what has been said multiple times in this very thread...

If you have the same situation happening time and time again. Just like CaliHP said, started with Vortech, then JDM, ST Motorsports, Whipple, now Livernois. Each time with a different shop or vendor, and the only common denominator is the person with the issues, You. That kind of narrows down the source of the problem.

Mark. I have been reading your threads for four and a half years. You are a check book racer that has more money then sense, and your knowledge is solely dependent on who's word you are taking at the moment as the gospel. There have been more Chevykiller is getting screwed by this vendor threads than I can count. Just as there have been more final word and judgment threads by you than I can keep up with. Who ever is working on your car at the moment is the greatest shop around and whoever the last shop to work on your car was is the shop that sucks the most, or the parts supplier you are threatening to sue next. You are a spoiled little brat with more money than knowledge or sense. You read something in a magazine or hear something in conversation and suddenly it is what you are going to do next and it is the best thing out there and the final declaration of the Chevykiller. That is, until it doesn't work because the person financing it didn't do shit for research because he feels that writing the check makes him know what the hell he is talking about.

If you aren't playing the "Look at me, I spent money and you all should bow down and kiss my feet because I am the almighty Chevykiller and I read something in a magazine so I bought it and you owe me because I have spent more on my car than you make in a year" card, then you are playing the "I am a victim and I am getting fucked and life isn't fair" card. Ya know what man... we really don't care anymore. 99.9% of the people out here handle their issues behind closed doors. And by doing so, get the situation taken care of. There is no reason to run to every forum board on the internet posting little drama queen threads. That doesn't get you anywhere.

You have become more of a parity than anything else. You have the fastest and most expensive S197 out there that doesn't fucking run. You can talk all the shit you want to talk. But bottom line, I raced my car last night. And the weekend before, and the weekend before that, and pretty much every weekend for the last 5 years. Have you?

Save your drama for your mamma. Tell it to someone who gives a shit. Running from forum board to forum board with your drama queen crap is completely played out and no one who isn't reading your posts for the first time really cares anymore. I just keep thinking to myself man... if he would have sold it the first time (of the many) he threatened to, and bought a Vette or something... we could be rid of the drama an the Bowtie crowd would be dealing with it instead of us.

So go ahead and tell me how I ain't shit, and how great you are, and how I can kiss your ass, and how much more the S197 community knows because of the money you have spent, and how everyone hangs on your every word and worships the ground your car is parked on. And I will go ahead and keep driving my car, and racing my car every weekend, and enjoying my car. Which is a hell of a lot more than the almighty Chevykiller can say.

 

[05stroker]

When you get tired if it you get out of the sport, you don't sink more money into it. Racing is a lose lose situation for 95% of all racers. A bottomless money pit

There in lies the problem. you have to be happy with what you have and make that work for you before you even consider going bigger and better. if you cant work out the bugs and glitches at a lower power level, your only compounding your issues at a higher power level.

I ment paying someone to give you what they say and it turning out to be a 500 mi ride . As for the seond coment I agree 100 % , but thats jsut me . I am however happy with my car . I have done all the work on it now for a while and I feel it makes it that much better for me looking at what I have learned and done to my car , and good or bad I am responsable for it and will tell the story either way . We all seem to learn either from mistakes made buy others or those made my ourselves, and sometimes the success . We just have to admit where the real blame is and then you can move on.

 

[marcspaz]

hey i wanna do it myself but i dont have the machines to prep a block or balance a rotating assembly lol

I found a use dynamic BTI w/digital video output for $4,500. A nice drill press, an assortment of weights and honing pads and we are good to go.

Who has a garage we can setup in? Mid-Atlantic or North East is cool.

 

[07torchgt]

I agree that someone is liable for the fuck up and it isn't Mark because he just wrote the check, but it sure as hell seems like it isn't Livernois from the evidence at hand. Hell, the title of the thread leads you to believe its Livernois' fault but as stated before look how many hands touched it... If RET used the wrong head gasket why isn't the title of the thread "you may change your opinion of RET..." Because if that is the case then how is Livernois responsible? How is ST responsible? How is Mark responsible? Caue it sure as hell doesn't seem like the cam was actually bent. So that knocks that one out... If the short block ran fine on a previous setup how can that be ST's fault... Look at the chain of events...

 

[EagleStroker]

I found a use dynamic BTI w/digital video output for $4,500. A nice drill press, an assortment of weights and honing pads and we are good to go.

Who has a garage we can setup in? Mid-Atlantic or North East is cool.

Isn't my Hines good enough?

I agree that someone is liable for the fuck up and it isn't Mark because he just wrote the check, but it sure as hell seems like it isn't Livernois from the evidence at hand. Hell, the title of the thread leads you to believe its Livernois' fault but as stated before look how many hands touched it... If RET used the wrong head gasket why isn't the title of the thread "you may change your opinion of RET..." Because if that is the case then how is Livernois responsible? How is ST responsible? How is Mark responsible? Caue it sure as hell doesn't seem like the cam was actually bent. So that knocks that one out... If the short block ran fine on a previous setup how can that be ST's fault... Look at the chain of events...

You and your fancy reading, looking at the facts, and forming a theory based on them. You have to rely on emotions in these types of situations

 

[andyman]

Sadly, that is the bottom line.

I have given Mark my fair share of shit, and it has all been in good fun because, well.. he is fun to fuck with and doesn't take it well at all. Which makes it even more enjoyable. But it comes down to what has been said multiple times in this very thread...

If you have the same situation happening time and time again. Just like CaliHP said, started with Vortech, then JDM, ST Motorsports, Whipple, now Livernois. Each time with a different shop or vendor, and the only common denominator is the person with the issues, You. That kind of narrows down the source of the problem.

Mark. I have been reading your threads for four and a half years. You are a check book racer that has more money then sense, and your knowledge is solely dependent on who's word you are taking at the moment as the gospel. There have been more Chevykiller is getting screwed by this vendor threads than I can count. Just as there have been more final word and judgment threads by you than I can keep up with. Who ever is working on your car at the moment is the greatest shop around and whoever the last shop to work on your car was is the shop that sucks the most, or the parts supplier you are threatening to sue next. You are a spoiled little brat with more money than knowledge or sense. You read something in a magazine or hear something in conversation and suddenly it is what you are going to do next and it is the best thing out there and the final declaration of the Chevykiller. That is, until it doesn't work because the person financing it didn't do shit for research because he feels that writing the check makes him know what the hell he is talking about.

If you aren't playing the "Look at me, I spent money and you all should bow down and kiss my feet because I am the almighty Chevykiller and I read something in a magazine so I bought it and you owe me because I have spent more on my car than you make in a year" card, then you are playing the "I am a victim and I am getting fucked and life isn't fair" card. Ya know what man... we really don't care anymore. 99.9% of the people out here handle their issues behind closed doors. And by doing so, get the situation taken care of. There is no reason to run to every forum board on the internet posting little drama queen threads. That doesn't get you anywhere.

You have become more of a parity than anything else. You have the fastest and most expensive S197 out there that doesn't fucking run. You can talk all the shit you want to talk. But bottom line, I raced my car last night. And the weekend before, and the weekend before that, and pretty much every weekend for the last 5 years. Have you?

Save your drama for your mamma. Tell it to someone who gives a shit. Running from forum board to forum board with your drama queen crap is completely played out and no one who isn't reading your posts for the first time really cares anymore. I just keep thinking to myself man... if he would have sold it the first time (of the many) he threatened to, and bought a Vette or something... we could be rid of the drama an the Bowtie crowd would be dealing with it instead of us.

So go ahead and tell me how I ain't shit, and how great you are, and how I can kiss your ass, and how much more the S197 community knows because of the money you have spent, and how everyone hangs on your every word and worships the ground your car is parked on. And I will go ahead and keep driving my car, and racing my car every weekend, and enjoying my car. Which is a hell of a lot more than the almighty Chevykiller can say.

qft. There was a short time when marky mark decided he was too good for the boards and didn't post at all... those were the days. it's not all bad though

Keep on trying to buy that respect!

 

[marcspaz]

Isn't my Hines good enough?

I use the "Chilton's Guide to Better Living" myself...

You and your fancy reading, looking at the facts, and forming a theory based on them. You have to rely on emotions in these types of situations

hahahahahhaa I actually did laugh out loud!

 

[stkjock]

guys enough kicking Mark whiles he's in the midst of this BS ok. Lets be gentlemen, contribute something useful or don't post, please and TIA.

my

 

[Lower ET Than u]

guys enough kicking Mark whiles he's in the midst of this BS ok. Lets be gentlemen, contribute something useful or don't post, please and TIA.

my

No one is kicking anyone when their down. Most people are just sick of his BS. and BTG said it best. Checkbook racer. If you dont understand or dont take the time to research and learn on your own, thats all you'll ever be and you will have problems.

 

[ZmanM3]

guys enough kicking Mark whiles he's in the midst of this BS ok. Lets be gentlemen, contribute something useful or don't post, please and TIA.

my

Well said.

No one is kicking anyone when their down. Most people are just sick of his BS. and BTG said it best. Checkbook racer. If you dont understand or dont take the time to research and learn on your own, thats all you'll ever be and you will have problems.

Then why even post? For that matter why even open the thread, no one made you read it and get all butt hurt because Mark is at it again.

 

[94tbird]

haha

 

[Lower ET Than u]

Then why even post? For that matter why even open the thread, no one made you read it and get all butt hurt because Mark is at it again.

No one is hurt except for Mark, Bud