GT500 track/street build

[Norm Peterson]

I don't think that damper tuning is going to be very productive for fixing midcorner issues, as the car should already be essentially at equilibrium as far as roll and pitch are concerned.

A lowered rear roll center generally needs more rear roll stiffness, and losing the rear bar probably cost more than the additional rear spring rate added. I think you need to work with these items first, which will probably cause some damper re-tuning as a consequence.

Geometry - How difficult would it be to raise the [currently lowered] PHB just a little?

Stiffness - Either a little more rear spring rate or a soft rear sta-bar?

Post #1 says you have a stock rear bar, but that has apparently been removed since. Had you tracked the car with it still on with all the other mods in place?


Norm

 

[csamsh]

Mid sweeper push, with no aero. So, let's say, for the purposes of this discussion, that you're not transitioning any more, so forget about shock adjustment. Not enough front grip...soft rear bar, 550# springs.

You may still be in zone where adding more front will make you understeer less. Until the tires are happy, the conventional wisdom of "stiffer bar reduces grip" isn't incredibly applicable. You need a picture of your car mid corner so you can check out your camber and body roll.

Also I'd put a rear bar on there. I tried running without it, and hated it. Partially because it didn't work for me, and also because I lost one degree of freedom in tuning.

If I were to build a another mustang from scratch it would probably be BMR front, whiteline rear.

Also...remember you're in a GT500, with MASSIVE amounts of front weight. I think a certain amount of "tail wagging the dog" is an inevitability.

 

[SlowJim]

csamsh, why don't you like the whiteline front bar? just not stiff enough?

 

[Sky Render]

csamsh, why don't you like the whiteline front bar? just not stiff enough?

See my post above.

 

[csamsh]

csamsh, why don't you like the whiteline front bar? just not stiff enough?

I do like it. Plenty stiff with the right spring, but it's solid. BMR bar is 6lbs lighter IIRC

 

[TORQR]

I am planning on getting an adj Steeda rear bar. The Whiteline one won't fit with my lowered panhard bar. I ran the car at Sonoma today and had the shocks on fairly low settings. Even with street tires (BFG Rivals), there was noticeable body roll. Had the same understeer issues as at T Hill. Once I get the rear bar, I will stiffen up the front bar to see if it helps.

 

[TORQR]

Norm, I did remove the rear bar for my road trip as I was afraid it would be too stiff with the 250# rear springs and I didn't want too much oversteer that I couldn't adjust. I thought I was playing it safe but it resulted in an annoying level of understeer. Living and learning.

 

[TORQR]

Does anyone know which aftermarket adj rear swaybar is smallest? I think the Steeda one is larger than stock and I'd like the option of making it softer than stock.

BTW, I dyno'ed the car when I was at T Hill and the best pull was recorded at 644 whp at 5800 rpm. The operator was having trouble picking up an rpm signal so only one pull was decently clean. Torque was very flat hitting 580 at 1500 rpm and 540 at 5800. Peak was 588 at 3700. The Torque/hp curve did not drop off much at all and so I wonder what it would hit if I upped redline to 6800 or so.

 

[Norm Peterson]

You might be able to still find a 22mm Hellwig bar, which in its softest setting is about the same stiffness as the 20mm solid OE GT bar. This was once sold by Sam Strano (and it's the bar I have on my own car actually), but since it no longer appears on his site I don't know if it's still being made. Probably worth a phone call or two though.

I think there was an 18 or 19 mm (solid) OE bar at one time, too.

It may be possible to modify an existing bar to be softer by lengthening its 'arms'. I know of one such case involving a 4th gen F-body rear bar, though the S197 rear bar may be stressed a little higher out near the ends due to the offsets between the arm centerlines and the axle side bushing centers (puts the arms in torsion as well as in bending).


Norm

 

[Lucky_13]

Eibach also sells a 22MM rear bar, which is available through Cortex Racing and likely some others. That's what I run on mine, but it's pricier than the OEM small bars at about $220.

 

[Yagermeister]

Try calling WATSON Racing

 

[Norm Peterson]

If that 22mm Eibach bar is solid, it'll almost certainly be a good bit stiffer than the 22mm Hellwig tubular bar. Would need a few other dimensions to make any good estimate of how much, though.


Norm

 

[CobraRed]

I do like it. Plenty stiff with the right spring, but it's solid. BMR bar is 6lbs lighter IIRC

This is what I was thinking. It's a nice set-up if you're running a stiff enough or more or less perfect spring, if not there's not a lot of room for adjust-ability to fine tune.

Coming from someone who has a new platform (simple HPDE goals) and hasn't done their front sway purchase, the Whiteline @ $225 including some nice end links and elastomer bushings is a good deal.

BMR's set up would be $390 when you include their end-links.

With KW coil-overs I'm not running a ton of spring up front so the adjust-ability from road to track-day would be nice.

Anyone have impressions of their Whiteline endlinks? Or know of a source that isn't an extra $170 on top of a BMR sway?

 

[csamsh]

Whiteline endlinks are top notch. Nice boots, good bearings, good adjusters and jam nuts.

The whiteline bars have 4 holes- they allow for a lot of fine tuning. I believe the BMR has 5, but I'm not aware of any others with this level of adjustability.

Incidentally...I have a couple of whiteline bars+endlinks (which are the correct length for coilovers, btw) for sale.

 

[Further]

Rehagan sometimes carries the smaller bar. I ordered an 18 mm rear bar from eBay that was probably from an 05-10 mustang. You may need to test fit against the rear LCA relocation brackets, too. If you're running square, the smaller the rear bar, the better.

 

[CobraRed]

Whiteline endlinks are top notch. Nice boots, good bearings, good adjusters and jam nuts.

The whiteline bars have 4 holes- they allow for a lot of fine tuning. I believe the BMR has 5, but I'm not aware of any others with this level of adjustability.

Incidentally...I have a couple of whiteline bars+endlinks (which are the correct length for coilovers, btw) for sale.

What I mean with the whiteline is nearly everyone sets it at its max setting which inherently doesn't allow a lot of adjustment elsewhere.

The BMR bar being more bar means you have adjust-ability up and down.

Sway is on my list, but not at the top yet.

 

[B2B]

I picked up a 05-09 Convertible 18mm rear bar from newtakeoff.com. Have not had a chance to try it yet, but bought it just to have some tuning options.

 

[SlowJim]

Coming from someone who has a new platform (simple HPDE goals) and hasn't done their front sway purchase, the Whiteline @ $225 including some nice end links and elastomer bushings is a good deal.

BMR's set up would be $390 when you include their end-links.

With KW coil-overs I'm not running a ton of spring up front so the adjust-ability from road to track-day would be nice.

That's exactly why I went with WL. Now I'm kicking myself over the 6lb difference, although I'm not sure it's worth the cost difference.

BTW, how do you like those? Never seen anyone else running them before.

 

[CobraRed]

That's exactly why I went with WL. Now I'm kicking myself over the 6lb difference, although I'm not sure it's worth the cost difference.

BTW, how do you like those? Never seen anyone else running them before.

I'm currently weighing the pros and cons of a BMR bar with WL end link for closer to $330 - which at least closes some of the gap.

Are you asking about the KW's?
I didn't think they are that rare. You see them a lot at track events around here on miatas and S2K's but i've seen a good amount of talk about Mustang users with them.

Only had the car for a couple months and just got the coil-overs, so I'll leave my review for when they get to see the track.
Not a track dedicated coil-over by any means I'm sure, but I expect them to perform well.

 

[TORQR]

Sam Strano talked me into his sway bar set with 1-3/8" front and thin wall 1" rear. I got the front bar to save the weight, but will probably retain the WL end links. Plus I'll have options if the stiffer WL bar is needed.