Quiksilver
Member
I thought I would just post this up (sorry about the essay) to get some perspective from the greater audience here as I feel there is a wealth of experience within this forum and I can get some answers. I am currently not getting an answer or any kind of solution from the seller of my transmission. This is not intended to smear anyone so I have kept names out of it.
To give you the background on the seller of my transmission he is a good friend so I am not going to drag him or his new business through the mud but I simply want piece of mind and get the perspective of the forum so its just not my opinion against his. I am feeling like I am being short-changed too and this has caused a huge argument between us which I hope to resolve amicably. I am also now carrying a few problems which I feel are not fair and not what I paid for
Here’s the issue:
This is what was advertised (and discussed) on our forum back home by the seller (lets call him John to keep names out of this for now):
Another D&D Performance T56 for S197 Mustang
05-08 Mustang Six Speed Swap Kit
Kit includes: 6-Speed Transmission rated @ 700 HP
Triple, Double Syncronizers
26T Input Shaft
Hydraulic Throw Out Bearing
Short Throw Shifter with Lever and Knob
Inner and Outer Shifter Boots
Cross Member
1-Piece 3 1/2" Aluminum Drive shaft
This Kit requires a 26T Clutch Disc
Kit is a true Bolt in kit, no fabrication is required.
Gear Ratios 2.97 1.78 1.30 1.00 .80 .62
A link was provided to the kit
http://www.ddperformance.com/05-08%2...peed%20Kit.htm
This link is not available anymore as they updated the website but is word for word what is above and had a relevant picture of the above kit.
The cost was a lot and was more than I would ever pay for a transmission but John was keen to introduce high performance parts into the market here so he offered a monthly payment scheme which I gladly took in return for some good PR. Basically I pay the tranny off over 6 months with interest on the top for him. I try to support his business wherever I can.
As I understood the tranny was the exact kit offered by D&D and then resold to join via another very prominent US company (on this and other forums). I do not want to cause an issue with Johns new business and this companies relationship so I am going to call them Bill.
Based on the above info I did my homework and I personally established it was a TR6060 transmission that was on the way. The transmission was also discussed on the forum further in the post with John as a TR6060. I went as far as to buy GT500 parts including a short shifter and shifter linkage and had to buy a different clutch and flywheel too (GT500 twin disk and steel flywheel). I also confirmed the deal on email by confirming that I would take the TR6060. It arrived in Dec.
When I got around to installing it in March we rented shop space and removed my transmission, installed the clutch and flywheel and went to collect the tranny. When my installer received the tranny and took off the packaging, he was naturally very confused about which transmission I had ordered as the transmission. It was established that I was in fact given a Viper Spec T-56 (Part #4R32 Model TUET4784). See attached pic for reference.
This was discussed immediately with John who insisted it was the correct transmission advertised and who discussed it with Bill who said they had the same one in their 05 stang (incidentally mine is '07) and it would fit into the car no problem. My installer was a little hesitant about this but went ahead with the install and fitted the tranny based on the confirmation of John. I assumed I had made a mistake somewhere along the line as it had been months since the purchase ship and then install.
The driveshaft was too short by an inch and the supplied flange didn’t fit in the differential pinion flange so an adaptor flange was fabricated (at my cost) to fill the gap. John insisted that the kit had all the parts needed and this was not needed.
After the install I started doing some homework and then the issues started to add up. Discussing them with John became a huge argument as he was defensive and not at all helpful to try sort this out. He made no effort to try to understand why I had issues. This just made me investigate further and so more issues came up.
To get to the point - Here are my problems with this tranny and the issues:
* Am I wrong in my homework that what was advertised is clearly the specs for a TR60606 not a Viper Spec T56? I need clarification on this please. Is there any doubt at all?
* I have bought parts that I cant use and have to sell at a loss to regain some of my money. They were bought based on the advertised info which I took to be the TR6060.
* I had to fabricate parts at my cost – the ad clearly says no fabrication. The fabricated parts are just temporary till I get the correct ones. The car has a resonating “hummmm” now from the rear and I don’t feel secure and safe with this.
* The transmission is very noisy and there appears to be a lot of thrashing from the rear. Would I have that if I had a TR6060?
* There is no short shifter in the kit and in fact there is no SS to fit this set-up on the market. The throw is very long in the car which is really not great
* Is the gear ratio as advertised? The gear ratio feels very long so the cars acceleration is much slower ( with 4.10's) which means my money spent on a more powerful car is useless unless I upgrade the differential further at additional cost for labour and parts to me.
* The shifter pulls the leather boot off after every shift
* Does this tranny cost the same and is its value the same as the one advertised?
* Is its strength the same? I bought it on the premise that it would be a tough tranny that could stand big HP with no issues. Does it have the triple double syncronizers and does it rate to 700hp?
* I have sold my previous clutch and flywheel so I cant put the stocker back on with the current clutch set-up
Here are the notes from my installer on what was advertised:
Hydraulic Throw Out Bearing– none in this kit stock slave cylinder used + Inner and outer shift boots)
Inner and Outer Shifter Boots – stock Inner and outer shift boots used
Here are a few points from Johns perspective:
* John is insisting he advertised a T-56 and that’s what I got. He is also insisting that the t-56 and TR6060 are the same gearbox.
* Johns says that its not his place to correct me if I called the T-56 a Tr6060 and when confirmed on email I wanted "the" TR6060 advertised it was my mistake not his.
* John also argued that another client had the same tranny (he ordered 2 ) and installed it no problem so why did I have issues. He has not given me their details despite me asking for them.
* John also constantly refers to Bills ’05 car that has the same tranny and apparently had no issues like this installing.
* Because my installer was a little unsure of the tranny and was as much surprised by it as me he was labelled incompetent by John and I was told what he says “cannot be trusted” as he does not know what he is doing.
* John also argued that Bill had the same tranny on their car which was an ‘05 and that some Mustangs had different length parts like driveshafts so mine was obviously one of those. This is why the driveshaft did not fit.
* John will not let me speak directly to Bill although I have no problem contacting them as they are a prominent US company and tracking them down the relevant person would be very easy. I have not phoned them directly out of respect for tarnishing Johns relationship with Bill.
* John says that he is 100% certain and has checked twice with Bill that I received everything in the “kit” as advertised by D&D. There is no adaptor plate supplied and one is not needed.
* I have installed and used the tranny for about 150 miles so returning it is going to be an issue as its now “used”.
* John says he regrets “helping me out” now as this has been such a headache for him
* John says I can pull it out and return it at my own cost. He will also be asking the remaining 50% cost back immediately. Here’s the math: initial install + fabrication + re-removal + re-install of stock tranny = +/- $1800 (+ new clutch set-up needed + entire cost of tranny)
* John says he is only selling using information given to him (as cut and pasted from the D&D website) so if its incorrect its not his fault.
* John cannot find any fault at all and has not admitted any liability with what is argued above by me
* John has come back to me last week while writing this (after major arguments of the above) that he has discussed the shifter and driveshaft with Bill who have said they will “get their technicians onto this”. They may get a custom driveshaft made by dynatech to fit the tranny. I have had no response on this
* John has also now said that D&D “changed” their kit in Dec 08 which just happened to be when I shipped mine. I am assuming he is saying they changed something he was not aware of at the exact same time of shipping.
My overall feeling is that I did not get what was advertised and that the seller should take responsibility for what he sells. I am now the owner of a helluva expensive tranny that is not what I paid for and has a whole bunch of issues.
Incidentally as his friend I never made these issues a big deal, advertised them or discussed them with anyone other than John and my installer. I simply accepted them until I just asked John to please ask Bill to supply the correct adaptor plate as I was concerned for safety on mine (my previous driveshaft loop desnt fit so it was removed). He refused to do this saying he had asked Bill several times, there was no plate and would not do it again. It started from there......
Personally to fix this I think John should ship out a TR6060 and replace the tranny at his cost as this has cost me far more than I bargained for.
I would appreciate some perspective on this and thanks for reading this far.
To give you the background on the seller of my transmission he is a good friend so I am not going to drag him or his new business through the mud but I simply want piece of mind and get the perspective of the forum so its just not my opinion against his. I am feeling like I am being short-changed too and this has caused a huge argument between us which I hope to resolve amicably. I am also now carrying a few problems which I feel are not fair and not what I paid for
Here’s the issue:
This is what was advertised (and discussed) on our forum back home by the seller (lets call him John to keep names out of this for now):
Another D&D Performance T56 for S197 Mustang
05-08 Mustang Six Speed Swap Kit
Kit includes: 6-Speed Transmission rated @ 700 HP
Triple, Double Syncronizers
26T Input Shaft
Hydraulic Throw Out Bearing
Short Throw Shifter with Lever and Knob
Inner and Outer Shifter Boots
Cross Member
1-Piece 3 1/2" Aluminum Drive shaft
This Kit requires a 26T Clutch Disc
Kit is a true Bolt in kit, no fabrication is required.
Gear Ratios 2.97 1.78 1.30 1.00 .80 .62
A link was provided to the kit
http://www.ddperformance.com/05-08%2...peed%20Kit.htm
This link is not available anymore as they updated the website but is word for word what is above and had a relevant picture of the above kit.
The cost was a lot and was more than I would ever pay for a transmission but John was keen to introduce high performance parts into the market here so he offered a monthly payment scheme which I gladly took in return for some good PR. Basically I pay the tranny off over 6 months with interest on the top for him. I try to support his business wherever I can.
As I understood the tranny was the exact kit offered by D&D and then resold to join via another very prominent US company (on this and other forums). I do not want to cause an issue with Johns new business and this companies relationship so I am going to call them Bill.
Based on the above info I did my homework and I personally established it was a TR6060 transmission that was on the way. The transmission was also discussed on the forum further in the post with John as a TR6060. I went as far as to buy GT500 parts including a short shifter and shifter linkage and had to buy a different clutch and flywheel too (GT500 twin disk and steel flywheel). I also confirmed the deal on email by confirming that I would take the TR6060. It arrived in Dec.
When I got around to installing it in March we rented shop space and removed my transmission, installed the clutch and flywheel and went to collect the tranny. When my installer received the tranny and took off the packaging, he was naturally very confused about which transmission I had ordered as the transmission. It was established that I was in fact given a Viper Spec T-56 (Part #4R32 Model TUET4784). See attached pic for reference.
This was discussed immediately with John who insisted it was the correct transmission advertised and who discussed it with Bill who said they had the same one in their 05 stang (incidentally mine is '07) and it would fit into the car no problem. My installer was a little hesitant about this but went ahead with the install and fitted the tranny based on the confirmation of John. I assumed I had made a mistake somewhere along the line as it had been months since the purchase ship and then install.
The driveshaft was too short by an inch and the supplied flange didn’t fit in the differential pinion flange so an adaptor flange was fabricated (at my cost) to fill the gap. John insisted that the kit had all the parts needed and this was not needed.
After the install I started doing some homework and then the issues started to add up. Discussing them with John became a huge argument as he was defensive and not at all helpful to try sort this out. He made no effort to try to understand why I had issues. This just made me investigate further and so more issues came up.
To get to the point - Here are my problems with this tranny and the issues:
* Am I wrong in my homework that what was advertised is clearly the specs for a TR60606 not a Viper Spec T56? I need clarification on this please. Is there any doubt at all?
* I have bought parts that I cant use and have to sell at a loss to regain some of my money. They were bought based on the advertised info which I took to be the TR6060.
* I had to fabricate parts at my cost – the ad clearly says no fabrication. The fabricated parts are just temporary till I get the correct ones. The car has a resonating “hummmm” now from the rear and I don’t feel secure and safe with this.
* The transmission is very noisy and there appears to be a lot of thrashing from the rear. Would I have that if I had a TR6060?
* There is no short shifter in the kit and in fact there is no SS to fit this set-up on the market. The throw is very long in the car which is really not great
* Is the gear ratio as advertised? The gear ratio feels very long so the cars acceleration is much slower ( with 4.10's) which means my money spent on a more powerful car is useless unless I upgrade the differential further at additional cost for labour and parts to me.
* The shifter pulls the leather boot off after every shift
* Does this tranny cost the same and is its value the same as the one advertised?
* Is its strength the same? I bought it on the premise that it would be a tough tranny that could stand big HP with no issues. Does it have the triple double syncronizers and does it rate to 700hp?
* I have sold my previous clutch and flywheel so I cant put the stocker back on with the current clutch set-up
Here are the notes from my installer on what was advertised:
Hydraulic Throw Out Bearing– none in this kit stock slave cylinder used + Inner and outer shift boots)
Inner and Outer Shifter Boots – stock Inner and outer shift boots used
Here are a few points from Johns perspective:
* John is insisting he advertised a T-56 and that’s what I got. He is also insisting that the t-56 and TR6060 are the same gearbox.
* Johns says that its not his place to correct me if I called the T-56 a Tr6060 and when confirmed on email I wanted "the" TR6060 advertised it was my mistake not his.
* John also argued that another client had the same tranny (he ordered 2 ) and installed it no problem so why did I have issues. He has not given me their details despite me asking for them.
* John also constantly refers to Bills ’05 car that has the same tranny and apparently had no issues like this installing.
* Because my installer was a little unsure of the tranny and was as much surprised by it as me he was labelled incompetent by John and I was told what he says “cannot be trusted” as he does not know what he is doing.
* John also argued that Bill had the same tranny on their car which was an ‘05 and that some Mustangs had different length parts like driveshafts so mine was obviously one of those. This is why the driveshaft did not fit.
* John will not let me speak directly to Bill although I have no problem contacting them as they are a prominent US company and tracking them down the relevant person would be very easy. I have not phoned them directly out of respect for tarnishing Johns relationship with Bill.
* John says that he is 100% certain and has checked twice with Bill that I received everything in the “kit” as advertised by D&D. There is no adaptor plate supplied and one is not needed.
* I have installed and used the tranny for about 150 miles so returning it is going to be an issue as its now “used”.
* John says he regrets “helping me out” now as this has been such a headache for him
* John says I can pull it out and return it at my own cost. He will also be asking the remaining 50% cost back immediately. Here’s the math: initial install + fabrication + re-removal + re-install of stock tranny = +/- $1800 (+ new clutch set-up needed + entire cost of tranny)
* John says he is only selling using information given to him (as cut and pasted from the D&D website) so if its incorrect its not his fault.
* John cannot find any fault at all and has not admitted any liability with what is argued above by me
* John has come back to me last week while writing this (after major arguments of the above) that he has discussed the shifter and driveshaft with Bill who have said they will “get their technicians onto this”. They may get a custom driveshaft made by dynatech to fit the tranny. I have had no response on this
* John has also now said that D&D “changed” their kit in Dec 08 which just happened to be when I shipped mine. I am assuming he is saying they changed something he was not aware of at the exact same time of shipping.
My overall feeling is that I did not get what was advertised and that the seller should take responsibility for what he sells. I am now the owner of a helluva expensive tranny that is not what I paid for and has a whole bunch of issues.
Incidentally as his friend I never made these issues a big deal, advertised them or discussed them with anyone other than John and my installer. I simply accepted them until I just asked John to please ask Bill to supply the correct adaptor plate as I was concerned for safety on mine (my previous driveshaft loop desnt fit so it was removed). He refused to do this saying he had asked Bill several times, there was no plate and would not do it again. It started from there......
Personally to fix this I think John should ship out a TR6060 and replace the tranny at his cost as this has cost me far more than I bargained for.
I would appreciate some perspective on this and thanks for reading this far.
