Cams and timing

[Samos3]

In older cast iron stuff, I might say 'good enuff', but in aluminum underneath the timing and valve covers or with the cracked, powdered metal rods, I think I want to be accurate and sure.

Also, since we are talking about low torque specs in aluminum, I learned a very long time ago that when putting bolts into threaded aluminum bolt holes, if you can't screw the bolt in all the way by hand, do not put a wrench on it. Find out why and correct it. Otherwise you chance a stripped or cross threaded hole that won't hold torque.

 

[Reddawg]

Funny reading about folks needing a Torque Wrench to work on equipment that requires precision but, don’t really need the wrench to be accurate.
This is the certification sheet for a real Torque Wrench. Notice it lists accuracy at three settings in both clockwise and counterclockwise directions and is well under the permissible error standard. Yes it is expensive and two or three of them are required to cover the range of fasteners normally found on a vehicle. This Wrench costs less than the engine it is used on.

View attachment 117143

Great point on the cost of the wrench vs. the cost of a botched repair. Like Samos3 the torque wrenches I have now are Quinn. I don’t need much of an excuse to spend money on tools… you’ve got me re-thinking my approach.

 

[whitmanink]

I wouldn’t be shocked. Professionally I have used Snap-On and Proto. Even a Craftsman or two. Mostly Click Stop wrenches and a few Digital. As long as they can be certified and for some jobs, traceable. From torque limiting screw drivers for instruments up to a 600 lb Ft dual beam wrench that got certified every couple years. We also used thermal setting on a regular basis and on one very large Caterpillar Straight 8 we used a hydraulic ram to stretch the main studs and ran the nuts on by hand. Just doing what the book said.

well il put it plainly,,
if you are a backyard mechanic, or a diy guy.
or even a tech ,
a cheap to mid grade torq wrench would be more than good enough and won't have any issues, to gert you by.
if your job does military work like mine, or some other space or deep sea sub stuff(lol)
than you must use what they say with the certifications and constant testing to make sure it stays in spec,(and or use a ferro machine to locate holes because its that critical)

but for %99 or people on here ,, harbor freight or amazon will do just fine.

(people also forget to put the torq wrench back to zero for storage or that could mess up the calibration )

 

[whitmanink]

In older cast iron stuff, I might say 'good enuff', but in aluminum underneath the timing and valve covers or with the cracked, powdered metal rods, I think I want to be accurate and sure.

Also, since we are talking about low torque specs in aluminum, I learned a very long time ago that when putting bolts into threaded aluminum bolt holes, if you can't screw the bolt in all the way by hand, do not put a wrench on it. Find out why and correct it. Otherwise you chance a stripped or cross threaded hole that won't hold torque.

yea ive never had issues with valve covers or the cop bolts not getting torqued to spec with a cheap torq wrench and snapping or striping,

and remember , just because it costs more , dont make it better ,, it could be worse..

fact is , all the torq wrenches nowadays come with a pretty good calibration (between 1-3 inch pounds or ft pounds) so no need to stress over something that wouldn't happen unless user error .

none of my timing bolts ever came loose or stripped , my cam caps never stripped ,
i could go on and on ,

in this day in age , expensive pretty much means you got money to burn and nothing else ,, with most things..

my puma shoes suck anymore , , nike i refuse to buy cuz how cheaply made they are , (but want charge over $100) .
the list goes on and on

 

[MrBhp]

This has been a great thread and very interesting. It's also inspired me to go ahead and swap my stock cams for Ford Performance Hot Rod cams. It's something that has been on my list and when AM had a set marked down 50% for open box, I couldn't say no.

While I have a couple torque wrenches, I don't have one that does inch lbs. Does anyone have a recommendation for a decent one that's not professional level expensive? I've found many that go down to 10 inch lbs. and one 'old school' style that does (https://a.co/d/09laalHJ). Is 10 inch lbs. close enough or too much for the cam caps? Should I get the old school style and shoot for the space between 8 and 9 inch pounds?

Opinions and thoughts please!

Have you received those cans from AM yet? I'm curious as to why they were marked down. Every time I see something from them that is heavily discounted, it's usually unusable. Like a camshaft set with only one cam. Or only one that's usable.

 

[Samos3]

yea ive never had issues with valve covers or the cop bolts not getting torqued to spec with a cheap torq wrench and snapping or striping,

and remember , just because it costs more , dont make it better ,, it could be worse..

fact is , all the torq wrenches nowadays come with a pretty good calibration (between 1-3 inch pounds or ft pounds) so no need to stress over something that wouldn't happen unless user error .

none of my timing bolts ever came loose or stripped , my cam caps never stripped ,
i could go on and on ,

in this day in age , expensive pretty much means you got money to burn and nothing else ,, with most things..

my puma shoes suck anymore , , nike i refuse to buy cuz how cheaply made they are , (but want charge over $100) .
the list goes on and on

Mostly I meant all the internal stuff that requires removing the timing and valve covers to get to it. That's a lot to go thru just for an over torqued bolt holding a chain guide (especially that short bolt) or having an issue with a loose tensioner bolt.
Particularly if the person doing the work is rather inexperienced.

But you are right about paying more for a brand that has engaged in 'cost savings' (theirs, not yours). Levi's used to have a quality you could feel. Now, not so much. I fact, I've found some jeans at Target are better made for a third the price.

 

[Samos3]

Have you received those cans from AM yet? I'm curious as to why they were marked down. Every time I see something from them that is heavily discounted, it's usually unusable. Like a camshaft set with only one cam. Or only one that's usable.

I'm noticing a lot errors in AMs Open Box listings. Just recently they had an ad for an Exedy 350 or 400 clutch but the pic was a much more expensive ($1000) clutch that had a different Open Box ad.
And well used, rusty parts are getting more common.
I did just buy a Holley fuel pump oil pressure switch that has never been used or even screwed into anything for less than half the going price and in inluded shipping.

 

[whitmanink]

In older cast iron stuff, I might say 'good enuff', but in aluminum underneath the timing and valve covers or with the cracked, powdered metal rods, I think I want to be accurate and sure.

Also, since we are talking about low torque specs in aluminum, I learned a very long time ago that when putting bolts into threaded aluminum bolt holes, if you can't screw the bolt in all the way by hand, do not put a wrench on it. Find out why and correct it. Otherwise you chance a stripped or cross threaded hole that won't hold torque.

I'm noticing a lot errors in AMs Open Box listings. Just recently they had an ad for an Exedy 350 or 400 clutch but the pic was a much more expensive ($1000) clutch that had a different Open Box ad.
And well used, rusty parts are getting more common.
I did just buy a Holley fuel pump oil pressure switch that has never been used or even screwed into anything for less than half the going price and in inluded shipping.

i dont shop AM anymore unless no1 else has it, even then i think do i really wanna take a chance?
ive shopped 5 times in the past 3 years,,
each time i got an "open box" item even tho i payed for a new one? 1

it never failed ,, and i wish i were joking but im not,
and each time i put in for a return i said in the comments
"i purchased a new item from you and you are trying to unload you're used items and thats theft!"

they wouldnt respond to that , only give me a return authorization ..

that to me is very very shady , and the fact it happened every time to me, shows the intent ..

im not telling you what to do ,, but i refuse to give them any more of my money

 

[whitmanink]

for context the last thing i bought from them was the remote battery box..
it came with the box and thats it, no hardware , no wires , .., like wtf!

that was the last straw for me

 

[Samos3]

for context the last thing i bought from them was the remote battery box..
it came with the box and thats it, no hardware , no wires , .., like wtf!

that was the last straw for me

I'm seeing these issues with other vendors, too.
I bought the vct seals from Autozone. Looked them up on their website. Found the ones with the hole centered, not offset. Dorman brand. When I opened the box they were the offset type. The box had a 'Returned' label on it from four months earlier. Looked up the part number on Autozone again and now it shows a pic of offset seals. Pulled up my order confirmation email and it shows the same part number, but with a pic of centered hole seals.
I presume the Return label is because it happened to someone else.

Rockauto has bad listings for the oil pickup o-ring for the 4.6 3v. The one I got was for a 2v.

Amazon has got me twice. First time was on the GT500 style front lower control arms. I had looked at all the reviews at the time, 8 years ago (already?...), and only one real complaint from a year or two earlier. A buyer received them with one new style and one old style control arm. He Returned them. I ordered a pair. Guess what was in the box? They must gave just thrown the box he sent back right back on the shelf without addressing the mismatch return issue.
Second time I received a part that had obviously been opened, instructions missing and and two screw holes crossthreaded/partially stripped. No other signs it had been installed. The label on the outside of the box said it came from the Return Department.
Are they not checking and hoping they can pawn stuff off on people?

 

[whitmanink]

I'm seeing these issues with other vendors, too.
I bought the vct seals from Autozone. Looked them up on their website. Found the ones with the hole centered, not offset. Dorman brand. When I opened the box they were the offset type. The box had a 'Returned' label on it from four months earlier. Looked up the part number on Autozone again and now it shows a pic of offset seals. Pulled up my order confirmation email and it shows the same part number, but with a pic of centered hole seals.
I presume the Return label is because it happened to someone else.

Rockauto has bad listings for the oil pickup o-ring for the 4.6 3v. The one I got was for a 2v.

Amazon has got me twice. First time was on the GT500 style front lower control arms. I had looked at all the reviews at the time, 8 years ago (already?...), and only one real complaint from a year or two earlier. A buyer received them with one new style and one old style control arm. He Returned them. I ordered a pair. Guess what was in the box? They must gave just thrown the box he sent back right back on the shelf without addressing the mismatch return issue.
Second time I received a part that had obviously been opened, instructions missing and and two screw holes crossthreaded/partially stripped. No other signs it had been installed. The label on the outside of the box said it came from the Return Department.
Are they not checking and hoping they can pawn stuff off on people?

well tbh the places you talked about are already known for QC issues ..

amazon is always a hit or miss ..

rockauto i got a fuel tank assembly unit for my old oldsmobile cutluss ,, the bread board for the fuel level gauge was broken and half missing

autozone i bought 4 new plugs for my wifes wrx , i got a bad one out of 4 the first time (the porcelain would move up and down covering the electrode,
went back with it and got an exchange ,,, same thing!!!

i ment venders we go to for good parts that have a good name (or had)
ie American muscle ,cj pony. LMR, ford performance , ect ect..

but i agree , pretty much everywhere is problems anymore ,, and the Chinese knock offs are getting out of hand ..ie cop, spark plugs ,ect ect

 

[Samos3]

well tbh the places you talked about are already known for QC issues ..

amazon is always a hit or miss ..

rockauto i got a fuel tank assembly unit for my old oldsmobile cutluss ,, the bread board for the fuel level gauge was broken and half missing

autozone i bought 4 new plugs for my wifes wrx , i got a bad one out of 4 the first time (the porcelain would move up and down covering the electrode,
went back with it and got an exchange ,,, same thing!!!

i ment venders we go to for good parts that have a good name (or had)
ie American muscle ,cj pony. LMR, ford performance , ect ect..

but i agree , pretty much everywhere is problems anymore ,, and the Chinese knock offs are getting out of hand ..ie cop, spark plugs ,ect ect

To me its one thing to get a defective part, quite another to get a part someone has already returned with obvious damage/defect and it just gors back into stock.

 

[Kev555]

From what I see lately Rock auto is operating its on turnover rather than customer experience. I'm sure they sell a lot of parts into UK and Europe but they are aren't bothered processing the paperwork sent in by suppliers certifying Russian steel is not used in products they are selling.
Half the stock in Rock auto is out of bounds to me ATM and they are the only firm I know of beside Summit that are providing half decent freight charges and speedy post into Europe.
In relevance to the above posts, two years ago I ordered two rear callipers for my GT from Rock. When they arrived somebody had stuffed a mini calliper in one of the boxes. Just an example of not checking return stock.

 

[GriffX]

From what I see lately Rock auto is operating its on turnover rather than customer experience. I'm sure they sell a lot of parts into UK and Europe but they are aren't bothered processing the paperwork sent in by suppliers certifying Russian steel is not used in products they are selling.
Half the stock in Rock auto is out of bounds to me ATM and they are the only firm I know of beside Summit that are providing half decent freight charges and speedy post into Europe.
In relevance to the above posts, two years ago I ordered two rear callipers for my GT from Rock. When they arrived somebody had stuffed a mini calliper in one of the boxes. Just an example of not checking return stock.

For original Ford parts I use tascaparts (but, don't know how they handle the russian embargo policy from our European socialist sowjet state) Western World went mad. I once got a damaged serpentine belt from rockauto, but also got the money back. BTW, a VW caddy has the same belt size.

 

[Kev555]

How do you get them to ship to Germany GriffX. They seem to only accept US zip codes on the website?

 

[GriffX]

How do you get them to ship to Germany GriffX. They seem to only accept US zip codes on the website?

Tascaparts? My last order is around 2 years ago, so something has probably changed, I ask them because only US credit cards were allowed and got an email to use paypal checkout. On the checkout page you can choose worldwide shipping.

PS: Despite there were some special Ford dealers to repair S197 Mustangs for the US troops, their part prices is higher than I order directly in the US. Done it once, a 20$ gasket was 60€ in the end and took 3 weeks to get.

 

[Rayne2ravage]

You are on the right track. At 150k, I would consider pulling the front cover and replacing the chains, guides and phasers as well. Probably the oil pump as well since you are basically there

I have 110k on mine. I was wanting to do the Detroit cams on mine. Are you thinking its a good time to do all that to mine as well?

 

[Kev555]

Tascaparts? My last order is around 2 years ago, so something has probably changed, I ask them because only US credit cards were allowed and got an email to use paypal checkout. On the checkout page you can choose worldwide shipping.

PS: Despite there were some special Ford dealers to repair S197 Mustangs for the US troops, their part prices is higher than I order directly in the US. Done it once, a 20$ gasket was 60€ in the end and took 3 weeks to get.

I forgot I had ordered con rod bolts from them just over a year ago. I don't remember how I got them ordered from Tasca but I found the emails last night. I'm getting forgetful in my old age but then I shopped and hunted in so many places last year for bits to rebuild that engine.