10 Speed Automatic issues while on track

Discussion in '2015+ S550 Mustang Chit Chat' started by JJ427R, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. JJ427R

    JJ427R forum member

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    Ran my new 2018 Mustang GT at Road America this past weekend. Not my first track days but first with this car, and I have to say I am very disappointed in how the trans performed.
    The car itself is a beast on track compared to my 2010 Roush and corners way better, even with all the track mods I've done to the Roush. I passed my first Porsche on slicks twice...
    That made my entire weekend...

    The 10 speed in track mode shifts very aggressively, especially down shifting going into corners, went almost to redline a few times and was actually down shifting going thru corners which threw me off and made me loose traction a bit.

    Went out first 20 minute session in Track Mode, S position on Shifter, first lap is under caution so you run slower speeds and acknowledge corner workers, second lap was taking it easy just getting a feel of the car, third lap I started to push it harder and the car started shifting really erratically and would either be too low in gear almost at redline or too high in gear and bogging out of corners until it could shift down. Made it thru the session with no real issues.

    Second session, couple laps into session it started the crazy shifting again, then going down Moraine Sweep into Canada Corner the car went into limp mode and completely shut down.
    Luckily nobody was behind me and I didn't get rear ended but I barely got the car off the track going up the hill, motor was still running but sounded like on 4 cylinders, could put the gas to the floor and it would do nothing. Shut it off and powered back on and it came up somewhat better so that I could limp it into pits without a tow.

    Ran DTC scan and got a error of P0600 Serial Communication Error. Seem this could be related to many things including bad PCM which is shifting the trans incorrectly, or the trans may be bad.
    After car cooled a bit it seemed back to normal so I went out again in Sport+ mode, started to go into limp mode again but I caught it and got off track before it killed again.
    Tried several session in different modes with similar results. Had the trans temp up to 250* but it never gave me any codes or warnings regarding trans. Engine Oil temp came up as warm was only thing I saw.
    I also tried shifting manually with the paddles, but I drive with hand controls and had not practiced it enough, and could not down shift enough in corners as I'm using my left hand for braking.

    Contacted local dealer today and they cannot get it in for a couple weeks, service manager seems to thinks it trans related...

    I'll post video when I get it edited to let you hear it on track.

    I hope this is not a sign to come of the new GT500 as it will have the 10 speed....
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  2. stkjock

    stkjock ---- Madmin ---- Staff Member Administrator Super Moderator S197 Team Member

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    I have zero experience with these new transmissions, however, can't you shift them manually?
     
  3. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    Don't they have paddle shifters now?
     
  4. fdjizm

    fdjizm Drag Queen

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    If only there was some kind of transmission where you could manually shift gears whenever you wanted :troll3:
     
    stkjock likes this.
  5. JJ427R

    JJ427R forum member

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    Aren't these designed to be able to shift themselves? Isn't that what Track Mode is for? It changes the mappings of the engine and trans for that specific purpose...
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  6. stkjock

    stkjock ---- Madmin ---- Staff Member Administrator Super Moderator S197 Team Member

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    /\ missed that in your OP, I did recall you use hand controls and that could have complicated it for you.
     
  7. JJ427R

    JJ427R forum member

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    Here is session 1 from Saturday morning, listen to how the car is shifting itself.
    Starts shifting really odd in the carousel on 1st lap. about 2:30 mark

     
  8. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter

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    I'm afraid I didn't pick up ALL of the implications on first read either. Or on the second. What I heard sounded like the transmission was hunting like it was getting mixed signals about how much throttle you were giving it. Wish you'd had an Aim Solo DL or comparable (for reading OBDII information), and merged the data into your video with something like RaceRender.

    Any chance the transmission control logic had learned your street driving quite well and got thrown for a loop when it had your track driving thrown at it? Obviously with 10 gears to choose from rather than 5 or 6, it's going to be doing a lot more shifting.

    PM coming.


    Norm
     
  9. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter

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    What happened to your S197? Still got it?


    Norm
     
  10. JJ427R

    JJ427R forum member

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    Yep, that's by backup.....
     
  11. JJ427R

    JJ427R forum member

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    I had not used track mode on the street, tried it once but was too aggressive for me on the street, so sport or sport plus was all I used, so it should not have learned anything in the track mode.

    You are correct in the trans hunting for which gear to choose, as soon as I backed off the throttle at speed it would go up in gears(5th to 8th), then when I would get back on the throttle it had to jump down a few gears to catch up to where it really should be (say from 8th down to 4th)
    As soon as you let off throttle and apply brake pressure it starts downshifting, and almost too aggressively as the rear end came around on me a couple times, in turn 6 when you go up the hill under the Corvette bridge and take the hard left, as it has to downshift very quickly and quite a few gears in that spot.

    The thing seemed like it was shifting constantly on that track, had a gentleman ride with me on Sunday that drives a Z06 Vette and he could not believe how much it shifted. Even at 130 mph down the straight it was still shifting gears. As soon as it finishes upshifting, then you're entering a corner and it has to start downshifting, and this is on a long track like RA, I can only imagine how much more it would be shifting on a short track.

    Road America will challenge a car to it's fullest and will show it's weakness very quickly.
     
  12. NickD87

    NickD87 forum member

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    I don't think the learning is specific to each driving mode. My 18 is my daily and I put it in sport or sport plus to play but find that it will shift hard in regular mode on the street as well now.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
  13. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter

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    Those 'middle gears' are pretty close - you're not going to get 20 mph out of any of them (even running hard) until you're north of about 120 mph.

    10R80 373 2754019.jpg


    I wonder if there's a way to make it possible to somehow move the paddle-downshift capability over to where you could use your right hand for that as well as for the upshifts.


    Norm
     
  14. JJ427R

    JJ427R forum member

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    Here is video of the actual shutdown, you will notice it going in and out of limp mode the laps before it actually dies.

     
  15. jewc75

    jewc75 Cant Stop, Wont Stop

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    18's and 19's are having all kinds of issues from engines popping to the a10's not working right. Thats why i havent even looked at them yet.
     
  16. ANGST

    ANGST Junior Member

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    Yup auto trans and rear diff heating up on the track is an issue with these . Both need coolers .
    I have a '17 manual and had it on the track for the first time a couple weeks ago , 90-95 degrees out and had the diff warning come on at the end of my second 30 minute session .

    Needs coolers
     
  17. JJ427R

    JJ427R forum member

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    I'm not adding any coolers. This is a new car with only 2500 miles on it and if this thing can't take 3 laps on a track without overheating, Ford's going to be buying it back from me. Ford promotes it as a car to be driven on the track, has Track Mode which is to "only be used on track". Like I said I only made 3 laps and I was having problems with it, that's ridiculous.
    This car also has the PP1 pkg. which is supposed to have additional cooling? I had Trans up to 250* and engine up to 230* in only 3 laps. Only message I ever received was Warm on engine temp, never received anything about trans, it just shut down, which is a very dangerous thing to have happen on a track. Ford will fix it or buy it back, that simple. They refuse to buy it back, I have 3 years of warranty, how many tranny's can I go thru in 3 years at a rate of a tranny every track day?
     
  18. Pentalab

    Pentalab forum member

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    I'm surprised the rear differential even has a sensor. That's almost indicative of a potential issue.
    How the heck does the trans get up to 250 F (and eng up to 230F).... in just 3 laps ??

    On a side note, I replaced the 80W-90 in the rear differential with 85W-140 on my 2010.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  19. jewc75

    jewc75 Cant Stop, Wont Stop

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    Directly from the warranty manual. They may advertise it as a track car but they wont warranty it as one. Same as the 13-14's that have the line lock built in. If you use it and something breaks you are on your own.



    WHAT IS NOT COVERED UNDER THE NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY? Damage Caused By: • abuse, competition, racing track use or other events • accidents, collision or objects striking the vehicle (including driving through a car wash) • theft, vandalism, or riot • fire or explosion • using contaminated or improper fuel/fluids • customer-applied chemicals or accidental spills • driving through water deep enough to cause water to be ingested into the engine • misuse of the vehicle, such a driving over curbs, overloading or using the vehicle as a permanent stationary power source
     
  20. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter

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    duplicate post courtesy of this site not returning me to the thread after submitting an edit to it.


    Norm
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019