2008 ROUSH Stage 3 Build...Take III

[dysan]

If you didn't have a blower bolted to the block and the knock sensors could work well and be sensitive then I'd be less worried.....but the additional noise introduced to the block usually requires the knock sensors to be de-sensitized or even turned off over a certain rpm so you lose some safety margin.

I wouldn't be comfortable with anything over 600 myself. The closest E85 station to me is 30-40 minutes away and it's all I ran in my car last year and will continue to this year. Only difference this year is it's strictly race only now so no street driving.

 

[BeachMonkey100]

I'm in the same boat debating fuel, closest and only E85 station around is almost a hour away

 

[AutoXRacer]

I have the same problem. I only can use 93. We have 115 oct but it cost 20$ per gallon...
What is better to put bigger Pulley and less timing or smaller Pulley and higher timing

NO!!! smaller pulley and higher timing = more power!!!

The first step is to find out where you are at with the motor...then you will have to adjust with different pulley to lower the boost to make safe power for 93 octane. I am thinking it will be in the 550-600rwhp.

I am frustrated because I know my motor is capable of so much more power, but we have to limit it due to the fuel. And I am not interested in pushing the motor hard to make XXXHP. I just want it to make whatever power it wants with 14 PSI and conservative timing of 14-16*. I am estimating it will easily hit 700-720PSI with those settings. But on 92 everyone is like NO!!!!!

 

[weather man]

On 91, 12 psi and 15* was it. Any more boost or timing and I had knock on the sensor and by ear. The problem is that it only takes one time for the tanker driver to accidently dump 87 in the 92 tank. No wiggle room on the edge.

 

[AutoXRacer]

On 91, 12 psi and 15* was it. Any more boost or timing and I had knock on the sensor and by ear. The problem is that it only takes one time for the tanker driver to accidently dump 87 in the 92 tank. No wiggle room on the edge.

I thought the only difference between 89-81-93 was additives. I was told it was all the same fuel across the board (brands and grades) and the only difference was the additives they added to each tank.

Is that bogus?

So anyone on meth that can give their opinion using it? I saw videos of some nozzles sprays and it looked like a damn garden hose!! I would be worried of washing out my blower bearings.

 

[eighty6gt]

Well, it is additives... that raise octane.

Meth is flaky to me. I kiiiind of wanted to try it because we can only get 91 here, but eh...

I can't tell how much timing I'm running (on data logs @ WOT SPARK ADVANCE IS 21 after 3800 or so and SPARK ADD KS is 2...) but when they switched to winter fuel (more aromatics,) my car started to audibly knock on tip in. My '08 is a summer only car now...

 

[AutoXRacer]

Seems like Meth on ROUSH blower is a no... lol

 

[weather man]

I thought the premium and regular was in separate tanks and blended for a mid grade. The premium at my local station is non-oxegenated, so I know it has its own tank.

 

[Saleen304]

Why can't you use meth on a Roush blower? Also, you can adjust the amount sprayed in via nozzles and the controllers. I know quite a few guys running meth/water on PD blowers with no issues. I installed a Snow kit on my Saleen series VI over the winter and can't wait to get out and use it.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I thought the premium and regular was in separate tanks and blended for a mid grade. The premium at my local station is non-oxegenated, so I know it has its own tank.

They do store them in different tanks...they just add different additives to each tank. Not familiar with oxygenated fuels.

Why can't you use meth on a Roush blower? Also, you can adjust the amount sprayed in via nozzles and the controllers. I know quite a few guys running meth/water on PD blowers with no issues. I installed a Snow kit on my Saleen series VI over the winter and can't wait to get out and use it.

On the ROUSH blower there is no where to put the nozzles post rotors. So you have to spray the rotors. My personal concern with that is what happens to the exposed bearings with water and meth dripping all over the place. My blower does not get hot enough to vaporize water.

I did see a picture of a Whipple with a dedicated meth port on the side of the blower case; seems pretty cool... There is just no space in the ROUSH case for that and no area in the manifold unless you want to spray and pool fluids on the bottom of it.

 

[Saleen304]

You are supposed to spray pre blower anyway. It's a fine mist and is only active at predetermined boost level and/or fuel injector duty cycle and progressively ramps up. Give Snow or another manufacturer a ring and talk it over. Nothing to be worried about IMHO. I tapped into my lid right after the TB and put the tank in the trunk.

 

[santi_bh88]

i saw here 2 cars blow up because they got out of meth.... i think meth is only for racing not for daily driving

 

[eighty6gt]

Time to buy a hellcat!

 

[thump_rrr]

I have been doing a lot of research on Meth because I will probably be going down that route sometime in the future.

Meth can be used effectively and there are safeguards that can be put in place to open the bypass valve if a failure occurs.
When spraying upstream of the throttlebody and only when in boost there is virtually no risk of getting a liquid slug in the cylinders.

Another interesting item that can be used to sense knock and retard timing by up to 20 degrees is the J&S Performance Vampire Knock Guard.

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/VampirePage/Vampire.html


It seems that there are some Terminator, Lightning and GT500 guys using it with success.
This is another thing I will be adding to my list of safety features.

 

[thump_rrr]

You are supposed to spray pre blower anyway. It's a fine mist and is only active at predetermined boost level and/or fuel injector duty cycle and progressively ramps up. Give Snow or another manufacturer a ring and talk it over. Nothing to be worried about IMHO. I tapped into my lid right after the TB and put the tank in the trunk.
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I'm looking at adding meth to my Saleen and I have a few question regarding your blower setup.
Built or stock bottom end, PSI of boost, octane, rwhp on and off meth if possible.
Where is your IAT sensor located and was that done because of the meth setup?
Are you running the Snow Stage 3 with the LCD controller?

You could also PM me if you prefer.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the hijack of the OP's thread.

 

[eighty6gt]

I can't see a difference between the vampire's knock sensor and the oem knock sensor... so why wouldn't you just try to use the OEM system... they probably have the same weaknesses with regards to supercharger NVH.

 

[Wes06]

those may be possible to mount to different places, and seems theres more of them.

so maybe mounting them to the outside of the motor or something reduces the noise from the blower

 

[JoshK]

I haul fuel for a living and there are different grades, not just additives. Not saying that they don't use addivites, but there are different grades.

V grade is 84 octane
*replaced N grade a year or two ago that was 87 octane regular without any ethanol
*84 octane is not legal to sell to the end user as the octane is too low. They lowered the octane in standard gasoline to drive the cost between ethanol blend fuels and standard gasoline farther apart trying to get more people to run an ethanol blend.
*So you can not sell V grade only to the end user, it must be blended

A grade is 91 octane
*this is where you get your premium gasoline, we don't have 93 within 3 hrs of here but I believe 93 is just A grade with additives

So

87 Non ethanol=50%V Grade+50%A Grade

87 10% ethanol=10% E+90%V Grade

89 10% ethanol=10%E+15%A Grade+75%V Grade

There are more blends but you guys get the idea

 

[swflastang05]

Well it seems like you already made up your mind, but my preference is e85, of course. The nearest station to me is about 25-30 minute drive but I just fill a bunch of fuel jugs every time I'm going out that way. I know you drive your car a lot more than I drive mine but I would figure out a way to make e85 work to play it safe and gain the extra power you want.

 

[hamish]

Just use a bigger pulley and tune for 92 octane when daily driving.

Drop to the smaller pulley and tune for e 85 when you want to go full retard.