2008 Stage 3 ROUSH - Rebirth...

[BadPiggy]

You bring up a valid point... May be worth doing since the motor will be apart.

That's a complete rebuild, you know?
If I were gonna do that, I'd just crate the bitch up and away it goes to JDM.
Let them figure it out.

 

[AutoXRacer]

That's a complete rebuild, you know?
If I were gonna do that, I'd just crate the bitch up and away it goes to JDM.
Let them figure it out.

Problem with that is that JDM is already giving me grief about the tune saying its running rich and that's why I'm burning oil. That the rich tune has not let the rings seat.

So if I crate it up, they will charge me all the labor and parts to rebuild it.
The cost to ship it equals the cost to rebuild it locally.

 

[JimIII@JDM]

Problem with that is that JDM is already giving me grief about the tune saying its running rich and that's why I'm burning oil. That the rich tune has not let the rings seat.

So if I crate it up, they will charge me all the labor and parts to rebuild it.
The cost to ship it equals the cost to rebuild it locally.

We have not given you grief or said anything about your tune, just that we feel the engine is getting too much fuel because your pistons are super clean from seeing the pictures you posted. We have not discussed cost of our labor or parts if you were to send it back to us. I've said it several times now, your next step is to take the engine out and take the heads off see what is going on. Weather that is done by you, us, or someone else until the engine is out and apart you are just speculating. I have told you if there is a problem with the heads we will figure something out to try and help you, I don't know what though because the problem has not been discovered yet.

You ran the break in oil way too long, your getting too much fuel into the cylinders some how, the engine is ventilated with a breather setup we do not recommend. You have had a consumption problem for several thousand miles and have not taken the engine out to see what the problem is like us and many others have suggested. I know you take pride and care about this car, do it a favor and lets try to figure out whats going on by taking the right measures and getting the engine opened up. No matter how many times you post and ask questions until this is done its all speculation!

JimIII

 

[AutoXRacer]

We have not given you grief or said anything about your tune, just that we feel the engine is getting too much fuel because your pistons are super clean from seeing the pictures you posted. We have not discussed cost of our labor or parts if you were to send it back to us. I've said it several times now, your next step is to take the engine out and take the heads off see what is going on. Weather that is done by you, us, or someone else until the engine is out and apart you are just speculating. I have told you if there is a problem with the heads we will figure something out to try and help you, I don't know what though because the problem has not been discovered yet.

You ran the break in oil way too long, your getting too much fuel into the cylinders some how, the engine is ventilated with a breather setup we do not recommend. You have had a consumption problem for several thousand miles and have not taken the engine out to see what the problem is like us and many others have suggested. I know you take pride and care about this car, do it a favor and lets try to figure out whats going on by taking the right measures and getting the engine opened up. No matter how many times you post and ask questions until this is done its all speculation!

JimIII

I agree and Jim is right...

I need to take the motor out and at least inspect the heads; find the smoking gun.
I'm working on that now. Its just a little too cold in my garage right now at 37 degrees.

But you have to agree that claiming that oil can work its way up pass the rings, up the combustion chamber, through the valves, and find its way into the heads is a little far fetched and unlikely.
You have constant vacuum pulling into the cylinders, then on top of that you have a blower pushing air into the cylinders. How is oil supposed to over come all those conditions and pool in the intake ports of the heads...?

 

[JimIII@JDM]

I agree and Jim is right...

I need to take the motor out and at least inspect the heads; find the smoking gun.
I'm working on that now. Its just a little too cold in my garage right now at 37 degrees.

But you have to agree that claiming that oil can work its way up pass the rings, up the combustion chamber, through the valves, and find its way into the heads is a little far fetched and unlikely.
You have constant vacuum pulling into the cylinders, then on top of that you have a blower pushing air into the cylinders. How is oil supposed to over come all those conditions and pool in the intake ports of the heads...?

What your not considering is that off throttle, immediately after hard acceleration the engine pulls at a much higher rate of vacuum and that is where the oil will pull past the rings and valves into the intake manifold.

 

[AutoXRacer]

What your not considering is that off throttle, immediately after hard acceleration the engine pulls at a much higher rate of vacuum and that is where the oil will pull past the rings and valves into the intake manifold.

But when I took the pictures/borescoped the motor, I had turned it on after an overnight rest, and just let it idle to get slightly warm, then pulled the fuel pump fuse to release fuel pressure.

So all the vacuum that was present was idle vacuum (21-22inHg).

But you're right, there is no point in talking this to death.

 

[jcw427]

Get cracking man. I'll have mine all together and in the trailer March 3rd come hell or high water and I'm guessing you've seen where mine is at right now. And I bet your shops warmer than mine when I've got the doors popped removing the undercoat. -44F two days ago without the wind chill. Thank god for in floor heat. But one more night of suffering doing undercoat removal and hopefully I'm done with that mess. Hopefully you'll find something stupid that's been missed during assembly that explains the problem and it's a simple cure. But personally blow it all apart no matter what. A fresh hone and a full set of seals is way cheaper than repeating this again in a year if you didn't get it touched up.

 

[one eyed willy]

But when I took the pictures/borescoped the motor, I had turned it on after an overnight rest, and just let it idle to get slightly warm, then pulled the fuel pump fuse to release fuel pressure.

So all the vacuum that was present was idle vacuum (21-22inHg).

But you're right, there is no point in talking this to death.

I wouldn't start the motor at all, run it, park it and then check it the next morning. By running it the night before it will burn off any oil. So if you let it sit overnight, check it when it's cold then that should tell you the valves seals/guides have a problem.

May be even better is if you take a few pics when you park it the night before, then compare those pics to the ones the next morning. Try to leave the camera in the same spot?

 

[AutoXRacer]

Feast your eyes on these babys!!!

ID1000 (96LB) Injector (left) vs FRPP 80LB injector (right)

Installed these last night. No more stupid spacers!!!!
Cranked the motor up with the start-up tune and OMG what a difference!!!

Previously with the FRPP 80lb injectors, my idle was ranging from 13.2 to 15.8 or so...just used to flop back and forth.
With the new ID1000s with just a start up tune (no fine tuning) my idle was 14.7 - 15.6; mostly at 15.2.

I am looking forward to some nice changes in fueling...

 

[AutoXRacer]

For updates:

See thread: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106363&page=9
Post #176

 

[AutoXRacer]

Ooh, brake refresh coming soon!!!

New 14" rotors for the rear!!! Need to reduce the load the front brakes are getting.

Still waiting on my Carbotech pads. I ordered Carbotech 1521 for the street and XP20/XP10 for track pads. I also have to order a set of front rotors. sigh

 

[AutoXRacer]

Officially started the tear down... sigh

Exhaust, driveshaft, and transmission out...
Now to focus on the motor.

Driver side collector

Passenger side collector

Driver side cat

Passenger side cat

The cats look pretty good for supposedly running a RICH tune. I would have expected them to look somehow worse.
What do they look like when they are plugged due to a RICH tune?

 

[jcw427]

Shitty man. But it will be worth it when it's done

 

[AutoXRacer]

Shitty man. But it will be worth it when it's done

Shitty indeed...

I just can't believe I'm doing this all over again. sigh

 

[crownaviation]

When ceramic cats fail due to excessive heat t..which can be to much fuel... they usually break up. That is why I prefer ceramic vs metal. When metal cats like kooks get hot they will melt and likely plug. I have seen a car show a couple extra lbs of boost due to clogged metal cats.

Ceramic is more likely to break up and blow out

Your cats look good from the pic anyway

 

[AutoXRacer]

Anyone care to tell me why I have oil behind the throttle body????

I have been running PCV-less for over 6,000 miles. What the!!!???

Check out the puddle of oil by the rotor!!

What is going on?
Could the leaking heads be causing oil to be pulled into the blower?

 

[skwerl]

Besides the two pcv lines from the valve covers, there's a third line on the Roush setup coming from the bottom of the intake manifold around the back of the intake elbow and ties in to the pcv lines where it gets plugged into a port on the intake. It basically recirculates anything that would spill or accumulate in the intake. Do you still have that line hooked up?

 

[AutoXRacer]

I think so since I have not touched it. I may just plug it when I take the motor part.
What did you do with yours?

 

[skwerl]

The fact that it's pulling oil out of your intake is enough reason to leave it alone until you fix the issue. I stuck a plug in the end of the line and left it laying behind the engine but if you do that now you could have oil puddling in your intake. Once it gets full enough to suck into the cylinders you could hydrolock the engine.

 

[AutoXRacer]

You are talking about the line thats referred to as the "bubbler hose"?

This is the line that connects to a 90 degree fitting on the bottom of the intake manifold and connects to the back of the supercharger?