3v NA Low twelves

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Not sure my goal is attainable. On a quarter mile calculator at 3600lbs( my car with 1/4 tank fuel and myself) I would need 375 wheel hp for 12.6,s. Thats well over 400 crank. Is that really possible with 280cu in na? Wide band is hooked up temporarily and im not as far off as I thought i would be.

I use the 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile trap speeds in my calculators 'cause they're more accurate than using the ET.

1/8 Method

1/4 Method

Enter your numbers and have some fun.
Mine are dead on!
In your case 320rwhp (365hp crank if you assume the more accurate 12% drivetrain loss, 375hp crank if you assume the "industry standard" fudge factor of 15%) should get you 1/4 mile numbers similar to mine.

If you need further inspiration go to:

Mustang 4.6L Three-Valve Dyno Runs

 

[JC SSP]

Sorry Dino but won’t agree with you on this one… track time is the real deal. Calculators, simulations and even dynos are good but nothing is better than real world performance.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

nothing is better than real world performance.

I agree there's no substitute for real world performance but that can be heavily dependent on the driver's ability, the ability of the car to put down the available power, atmospheric conditions, wind direction, elevation, whether the test road is level, and the quality of the road surface.
All the stars need to align to get the real world performance you'd expect from the hp/tq curves and vehicle + driver weight.
Having both dyno results and performance data will tell you whether your car is underachieving, where, and why.

 

[JC SSP]

A time slip will do that buddy.

 

[StockishS197]

Sorry Dino but won’t agree with you on this one… track time is the real deal. Calculators, simulations and even dynos are good but nothing is better than real world performance.

Well, I have a funny story about using a calculator.

First time at the track, I put in my at the time, intake/tune 06 GT, into an online 1/4 mile estimator based on expected power, gear ratio, weight etc and it said 12.99. I thought it was a bit optimistic.

That night, it went a 12.99 @ 106 so calculators can be accurate. Though that pass was a hero pass with a 1.7 60’ on street tires with DA well in the negatives on a cold night.

Edit. @Dino Dino Bambino is that Anglefire website yours?

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

@Dino Dino Bambino is that Angelfire website yours?

Yyyyyyyyyyup! You might recognise the car on the home page.

 

[GriffX]

Yyyyyyyyyyup! You might recognise the car on the home page.

Bück dich befehl ich dir, wende dein Antlitz ab von mir, dein Gesicht ist mir egal, bück dich, noch einmal

PS: A good horespower estimation is a calculation from air mass flow. Air mass flow in grams per second multiplied by 1.2 is metric horsepower.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

PS: A good horsepower estimation is a calculation from air mass flow. Air mass flow in grams per second multiplied by 1.2 is metric horsepower.

Spot on! I can monitor live MAF rate and HP from MAF using my ELM327 Bluetooth scanner.

Bück dich befehl ich dir, wende dein Antlitz ab von mir, dein Gesicht ist mir egal, bück dich, noch einmal

This is me performing that track on a karaoke night

 

[GriffX]

This is me performing that track on a karaoke night

And afterwards to the chiropractic for the neck dislocation?

And the original, go to minute 54

 

[StockishS197]

Yyyyyyyyyyup! You might recognise the car on the home page.

Ha! Had no idea - used it for GREAT info on deciding my incremental power adders.

 

[the sandman]

I got wide band in and im at approximately 14.3 cruising goes off scale 20 on coasting and bounces between 11 and 12 at WOT. So I had 10 percent rich at wot and reduced that to 4 percent and will ck again tomorrow. Weather report looks good for Sunday. Its last track day at mid michigan for 2025.

 

[StockishS197]

I got wide band in and im at approximately 14.3 cruising goes off scale 20 on coasting and bounces between 11 and 12 at WOT. So I had 10 percent rich at wot and reduced that to 4 percent and will ck again tomorrow. Weather report looks good for Sunday. Its last track day at mid michigan for 2025.

Coasting at 20+ is probably just pegged by coasting fuel shut off, which is normal in the tune.

Shoot for 12.4-12.8 AFR at WOT. Mine seems happiest at 12.8-12.9…just keep an eye on KR as you lean it out. I would also log spark and see what your tune is commanding at WOT. Being more rich gives you some buffer against detonation, so you don’t want it aggressively lean AND have aggressive timing.

If you get above 13.0 at WOT, let out

Also be careful, as some tuners will restrict the KRs ability to pull timing so as you are changing fueling, be listening and logging for KR.

 

[the sandman]

Ok Stockish; Sounds good but what is KR? Also can I call you by your first name( farfrom) Stockish? Just funnin ya Brother.

 

[StockishS197]

Ok Stockish; Sounds good but what is KR? Also can I call you by your first name( farfrom) Stockish? Just funnin ya Brother.

Ha, my name is Kyle so that works.

KR = Knock Retard. If you are using LiveLink to log, you should be able to find Spark Adder Knk Sensor Array [0] or something similar which would show you how much timing is being added or removed based on the knock sensors. There are a few other PIDs that would show you set knock sensors sensitivity, knock sensor limits, etc,

 

[the sandman]

Anyone have a wideband? Mine is all over the place. Wot from 11 to 13. Cruise at 14.5ish but flashes 13,s to 15,s with numbers changing to fast to read. Best to use the outside dot floating around rather than digital. My sensor is just outside right header flange and is heated. Im not smart enough to data log but im trying to learn this stuff. Im using the tunes on my SCT, 94 oct, plate deletes and JLT. Weather is sill looking good for Sunday.

 

[AHaze]

I got wide band in and im at approximately 14.3 cruising goes off scale 20 on coasting and bounces between 11 and 12 at WOT. So I had 10 percent rich at wot and reduced that to 4 percent and will ck again tomorrow. Weather report looks good for Sunday. Its last track day at mid michigan for 2025.

Not sure what you have for pump gas where you are but keep in mind the standard 14.7 stoich. ratio is for straight gasoline. E10 is around 14.1.
Now the real fun part is you have to know what fuel your wideband is calibrated to as well. A WB calibrated for E10 will show 14.1 when running gasoline at 14.7:1 and vice-versa.
I prefer setting my WB gauge to Lambda mode where a reading of 1.0=stoich. regardless of what's in the tank.

 

[GriffX]

Anyone have a wideband? Mine is all over the place. Wot from 11 to 13. Cruise at 14.5ish but flashes 13,s to 15,s with numbers changing to fast to read. Best to use the outside dot floating around rather than digital. My sensor is just outside right header flange and is heated. Im not smart enough to data log but im trying to learn this stuff. Im using the tunes on my SCT, 94 oct, plate deletes and JLT. Weather is sill looking good for Sunday.

My supercharged Mercedes runs 13.3 at WOT and 16 at low load mid rev driving. Your values are normal to me.

 

[MrBhp]

Wideband readings are fairly high resolution. The slightest movement of the throttle blades will change every thing. Your readings are expected.

 

[the sandman]

Wow im proud of ya GriffX. Im 74 and not a senior member yet. And your driving supercharged sports cars. Man that gives me inspiration.

 

[JC SSP]

Wow Sandman for whatever reason I thought you were a kid. Lol

Enjoy the Mustang, they are the fountain of youth.