Bolt sitting on top of piston - Advice ASAP

[Brick]

Not that it matters, but what does the bolt go to? I don't remember any aluminum bolts on the motor. Hang in there, you'll get it. Sometimes I will walk away from this type of problem for an hour and come back and get it right away.

It was actually a stainless steel bolt, in the panic of it dropping and realizing it wasn't magnetic I just assumed it was aluminum... but now that I'm thinking straight I've never even heard of an aluminum bolt. The one I dropped secures the fuel rail to the FRPP manifold.

I got it out. After spending a few hours trying to fish it out, I ended up just pulling the head. After getting the head off, I don't think theres any way I could've pulled it back out the plug hole - unless I was able to stand it up on end and grab it by the threads with the claw. The round head of the bolt was perfectly matched to the plug hole with no wiggle room.

For anyone who might reference this thread in the future, I think the best chance of getting anything out of there would be to do as 05moneypit suggested. Pull the intake manifold and open the intake valve as far as you can with a valve spring compressor. Then use a claw tool(s) through the valve and/or spark plug hole to remove it. Trimming down the teeth on the claw will give a little more clearance to get it down there. With enough patience I probably could have gotten it out this way.

Never again will I ever leave any hole into the engine open where something can fall through. Thank you guys for all your help!

 

[Riptide]

Bummer you had to pull the head to get that out of there. Guessing after a few hours or more of fishing it gets easier to give up on it. Hard lesson learned for sure.

Glad you have it resolved even if it ended up being a lot of work.

 

[slackinoff]

Stuff like this happens, the tough wrenchers will get it out one way or anther. Good job man.

 

[G.T]

That sucks man..
did you replace the head gasket and bolts?

 

[swflastang05]

At least you found the lost bolt, and without starting it back up, that would have sucked a million times worse! That's one of my biggest fears, whenever I drop a bolt or washer, etc. I hunt for it until it's found for this exact reason.

 

[Grabber Blue 5.0]

A friend of mine dropped a washer doing an intake swap on his Corvette years ago. He couldn't find it and had to get the car back together before his wife got home because he didn't want her to know he had spent money on an intake. The washer was found when he tried to start the motor. It had landed on top of the piston. Cost him around $10,000 and eventually his marriage.

 

[Brick]

That sucks man..
did you replace the head gasket and bolts?

Haven't put the head back on yet, but yes, I'll be ordering the FRPP head changing kit from Tasca since the bolts are TTY and the gasket is a one time use item. Might even order a second kit to have on the shelf since FRPP pricing has been going up lately.

 

[05moneypit]

Haven't put the head back on yet, but yes, I'll be ordering the FRPP head changing kit from Tasca since the bolts are TTY and the gasket is a one time use item. Might even order a second kit to have on the shelf since FRPP pricing has been going up lately.

I have 3 new sets of TTY bolts and you can have a set if you want. I think a single head gasket is about the same price as the head change kit though.

 

[Brick]

I have 3 new sets of TTY bolts and you can have a set if you want. I think a single head gasket is about the same price as the head change kit though.

Thank you very much for offering, but you're right. A single head gasket is $93 from Tasca and the kit with both gaskets and bolts is only $65. So I'll go that route and probably put an extra set on the shelf for a short block build down the road before FRPP raises the price like with the timing kit.

 

[Phil1098]

Hey Brick, bought this yesterday and thought of your issue.

 

[Brick]

Hey Brick, bought this yesterday and thought of your issue.

Definitely does not work on stainless, I like how it shows pulling a bolt out of a manifold on though!


What is the best way to clean and prep the block and head surfaces for reinstallation? Right now I'm just using my fingernail and a rag with some brake cleaner sprayed on it to remove the remnants of the old gasket material, carefully making sure to catch all of it and using a vacuum also to be sure I get everything. I know I don't want to use any kind of metal scraper.

Edit: While cleaning I just found a few scratches near the front of the head. Same area, one with flash and one without. Will these pose enough of an issue that the head should be resurfaced? If so, what's the process of prepping it for that?

 

[Towelie]

At least you found the lost bolt, and without starting it back up, that would have sucked a million times worse! That's one of my biggest fears, whenever I drop a bolt or washer, etc. I hunt for it until it's found for this exact reason.

I'm the same way, but its because of my job. i have seen dropped and forgotten pieces of safety wire shell out an entire jet engine. Not too long ago an airplane actually crashed and killed everybody on board because of a forgotten tool that interfered with the flight controls.

tool and parts accountability is so important but so often overlooked

 

[swflastang05]

Definitely does not work on stainless, I like how it shows pulling a bolt out of a manifold on though!


What is the best way to clean and prep the block and head surfaces for reinstallation? Right now I'm just using my fingernail and a rag with some brake cleaner sprayed on it to remove the remnants of the old gasket material, carefully making sure to catch all of it and using a vacuum also to be sure I get everything. I know I don't want to use any kind of metal scraper.

Edit: While cleaning I just found a few scratches near the front of the head. Same area, one with flash and one without. Will these pose enough of an issue that the head should be resurfaced? If so, what's the process of prepping it for that?

I would resurface that head if it was one of mine, it's no big deal just bring it to a good machine shop "as-is" and they should be able to take a couple thousands off to clean it up.

And you got it for removing the old gasket material, or you can use a plastic scraper.

 

[Brick]

I would resurface that head if it was one of mine, it's no big deal just bring it to a good machine shop "as-is" and they should be able to take a couple thousands off to clean it up.

And you got it for removing the old gasket material, or you can use a plastic scraper.

I'm a little OCD and would rather be safe than sorry. When you say "as-is"... the exhaust manifold, cam, and valve train wouldn't have to come off?

 

[Brick]

After doing some research about head resurfacing, it seems there's two ways it can be done. Either with what is essentially a giant belt sander, or a mill. I've also read that for our aluminum heads and multi layer steel gaskets, the sander method won't provide a smooth enough surface to properly seal and that the mill is the preferred method. I can have the sander method done at no charge, but I think finding another shop to do it with a mill is the right way to go.

Is that all correct?

I haven't gotten the block surface cleaned yet, but as long as there are no scratches on it, it shouldn't need any machine work right? If it does, maybe I should just fast forward my plans for a B53 shortblock.

 

[swflastang05]

I'm a little OCD and would rather be safe than sorry. When you say "as-is"... the exhaust manifold, cam, and valve train wouldn't have to come off?

You would need to remove the exhaust manifold but the cam and followers, etc can stay put.

After doing some research about head resurfacing, it seems there's two ways it can be done. Either with what is essentially a giant belt sander, or a mill. I've also read that for our aluminum heads and multi layer steel gaskets, the sander method won't provide a smooth enough surface to properly seal and that the mill is the preferred method. I can have the sander method done at no charge, but I think finding another shop to do it with a mill is the right way to go.

Is that all correct?

I haven't gotten the block surface cleaned yet, but as long as there are no scratches on it, it shouldn't need any machine work right? If it does, maybe I should just fast forward my plans for a B53 shortblock.

Yes you need to have it properly milled at a machine shop, not just sanded. There's a specific "RA" (roughness average) that needs to be in place when the milling is done for the gaskets to properly seal. And yes, the block should be fine as long as there's no significant scratches, etc.

 

[travelers]

^^What he said......

 

[Brick]

I've been cleaning away on the block using brake cleaner sprayed on a rag and my fingernail to scrape of the debris. Luckily, I have not found any scratches or defects in the block surface. But I still have a few questions...

1) I cleaned the tops of the pistons, initially thinking that was a good thing. Now I'm realizing it probably wasn't. I tried to be careful not to let any carbon get down in the gap between the piston and wall and onto the rings, but what is the best way to ensure I get that gap cleaned out so that I don't end up ruining the rings and start burning oil once I get everything reassembled? I'm going to have the oil pan off swapping to the aluminum GT500 pan. Is it best to remove the pistons? Or can it be done well enough from the top?

2) How much cleaner does the mating surface need to be? Pictures below, I'm continuing to wipe it down with brake cleaner and rag, but can still see the outline of where the gasket was. Will I be able to get it to that "fresh machined" look with enough patience?

3) There are some scratches on the piston from trying to use the claw tool to get the bolt out (picture below). Are those anything to worry about? They are light and can't be felt, but obviously can be seen.

Thanks!

 

[eighty6gt]

You will not be able to get rid of the "tattooing" on the deck, just make sure there's nothing proud of the surface. Oven cleaner/actual gasket remover may help.

Some material may pass through the top ring end gap and down into the pack if you are mucking around on top of the pistons, but... meh. I would just bring the slug to TDC and spray some WD40 over the top ring, blow it out with compressed air.

 

[Gabe]

Yeah you're being way too anal about it ... that mating surface looks great, slap it together and enjoy.
I wouldn't even bother about the scratches you showed earlier in the thread ... the head will seal up just fine.