Fan ... when does he kick in ?

[StockishS197]

"Spanish Oak" is the code name of these 05-10 MY Mustang's ECU (engine control unit) or PCM (power control module)............the actual name is a PowerPC EEC VI 1024k ECU... Now while some of these S197's certainly do exist in the country of Mexico, I can't say if yours was imported from Mexico or elsewhere......


Outside of using the Ford IDS\PCMTech software, the only other methods I'm aware of is thru using an aftermarket tuning software such as HPTuners or SCT (the 1st popular aftermarket tuning suite software to tune Fords.........) as these were developed to access the OEM ECU's OS's\tune calibrations\internal firmware (to an extent.......not fully........these ECU's have as many as 16,000-18,000 lines of code programmed into them...). Try to see if the PO's still have the tuner that was used to flash tunes to the car (odds most likely will be a SCT handheld device.......).

As for whether hurting the car or not..........I can't say concerning the tune calibration in general........but concerning the current cooling fan profile programmed in it laid out from your testing methods, this profile is a BIG contributing factor to the problem of burned BEC's, wiring, connectors, fan relays, fan motors & potential engine overheating as a result.....especially if run w\ the stock GT radiator & fan due to grossly inadequate cooling capacity aggravated by retaining the OEM 195*F thermostat along w\ it........thus the fan will run continuously at hi speed settings (meaning at full current draw......engine operating temps thru OEM rads\fans could regularly exceed the 198*F setting.......especially if run w\ HVAC off, HVAC on is your best setting to keep on so fan at least starts running immediately in low speed continuously until this can be reprogrammed......to try to limit the amount of time the system runs continuously in hi fan speed mode......Ford designed this system for optimum thermal engine efficiency to be around 212*F avg operating temps.....but not drop below 195*F......to meet CAFE stds for MPG & emissions but also efficient power output as well)......especially if ECU was tuned for higher performance......against ram air at speed that WILL cause the fan to struggle to turn--airflow will try to reverse fan rotation--causing the fan's electrical system to eventually overload the capacity of the wiring, connectors, relays, etc from very high electrical resistance AND reverse current flow (back flow if preferred......) generated from the DC fan motor running when it should be freewheeling w\ no power applied (thus no reverse flow generation of DC current into system due to open relays breaking continuity......).....in addition of RESTRICTING the total airflow thru the radiator (running fan is SLOWER than the same fan in free spin thus creates higher airflow restriction thru the fan shroud at hiway speeds.....) thus causing the engine to potentially overheat even faster than it would have otherwise (mostly if running the car at high speeds under high loads but depending on conditions can even cause this at lower engine RPM's if the engine loads are high enough.....). IMHO, this is not an IF scenario, but a WHEN scenario........the rest depends on what\how you deal w\ it.......thus kinda like playing Russian roulette.........w\ your car. This system uses 40A J-case slow burn fuses.......which in most instances will not reach their blow point before the wiring, connectors, relays will start to break down & start burning, melting stuff.............so keep a close eye on all this until rectified.

This particular cooling fan settings profile, IMHO, was intended to be used in conjunction w\ the usage of the LARGEST CAPACITY radiator\cooling fan that could be fitted AND a 160*F-170*F thermostat to go w\ it..............package deal strictly for competition road course racing purposes (FYI......this cooling fan profile looks to be the "defacto" profile for the '08 Ford factory FR500S S197 race car...........I have in hand 3 separate copies of this FR500S race car's tune calibration from 3 different cars\ECUs in which this exact cooling fan profile exists in all 3 of them......) that I believe somebody miscalculated could be used safely in stock modified\boosted 3V ECU's using the 05-10 S197 OEM GT stock 1-row cored radiator\fan\195*F thermostat combo w\o issue to "improve" cooling performance due to it being created by Ford & used in a Spanish Oak ECU OS w\o any thought of the REST of this race car's cooling packaging since the base car used was a stripped down production line '08 Shelby GT........most notably the radiator & fan ('08 Ford GT500......larger 2-cored rad & larger fan shroud w\ relief exhaust flaps but OEM GT500 rad looks exactly like a stock OEM GT 1-row core radiator.......in looks only.....) w\ a 160*F-170*F thermostat installed (most likely candidates to match to this profile since it gives a 18*F to 28*F cushion from when it opens to flow vs the low fan speed disable setting of 188*F thus a chance for this profile to work as programmed.....and since competitive road course racing is done at higher RPM's\engine loads\vehicle speeds for extended time periods under mostly CL part throttle conditions......not under OL PE for WOT operations (read high heat generation & heat soak here.......thus the normal racing operating temp area would be somewhere between 180*F thru 194*F.....engine was a sealed, OEM factory production line 4.6L V8 per Miller Cup Challenge race homologation rules w\ all other parts used had to be off the production line as well, thus the usage of certain GT500 OEM parts & OEM Bullitt parts......), this type of fan cooling profile usage makes the most sense--but IMHO not for any semblance of daily driving street duties on stock cooling equipped NA 3V GT's........especially using A\C or heat under HVAC (compressor operations exerting extra engine load thus heat generation.........which the race car didn't have) or when using FI (also the race car wasn't equipped with either..............).

IMHO, a popular "factory" cooling "mod" that a LOT of tuners still apply (my prior tuner at the time also used this very same "FR500S" cooling fan profile w\ my car until I saw it myself then gave him a copy of my revised cooling fan profile based off the OEM cooling fan profile to put in my car's ECU to eliminate this potential BEC, wiring, relay burning issue some 5 yrs ago now.........) but not well thought out\thought thru from an actual application standpoint in regular production line equipped GT S197's..............

I'm sure that some will most certainly disagree w\ my assessment since this profile is still getting used as is by tuners who have been doing this far longer than I.......................but still doesn't make it "right".........

Can it work............IMHO, yes when properly set up w\ the proper sized supporting components for the operating conditions it was originally conceived for..............

Hope you get all resolved to your satisfaction.........

I have to ask…do you have the FR500S calibrations in a .mtf format….?

 

[Juice]

I have to ask…do you have the FR500S calibrations in a .mtf format….?

If you can work with an mtf, you have software (PRP) to change fan settings.

 

[StockishS197]

If you can work with an mtf, you have software (PRP) to change fan settings.

Inquiring mind wanting to see the calibration file for the FR500

 

[GlassTop09]

I have to ask…do you have the FR500S calibrations in a .mtf format….?

Sorry StockishS197..................I have these translated into HPTuners .hpt format only.............is how I can see & read them.

I know there are translating software out there that have the capabilities to cross translate source coding from 1 format to another............but it seems that this stuff is being held very close to somebody's chest so to speak........mostly for good reason..........when trying to protect your intellectual property rights.

 

[brasil]

@ GlassTop09

thank you very much for your answers. and the informations.
While reading your informations...I came to the conclusion, that I NEED to find a Ford Dealer to reflash my ECU /PCM....
I hope that someone here in the "automotive third world" will reflash my Pony...

 

[brasil]

@ GlassTop09

...what do you think... is it possible to change the Temp settings with my FORSCAN ? I have a valid licence ..so I can alter /change settings.. And if it is possible... where do I have to start with the "reprograming " ECU /PCM ? or exists another Module ..only for the cooling fan ?

As far as I can see...my car has the stock Exhaust..Stock Trottle Body..stock injectors and coils..

So I cannot see any reasons for the fan settings .

 

[Juice]

No. Forscan can only change what can be changed with IDS. You can't even change it with IDS.
I'm not sure why Ford won't reflash it, unless they replaced IDS with a new tool. But there are still older cars that require the dealer to have the dealer tool.

 

[GlassTop09]

And if it is possible... where do I have to start with the "reprograming " ECU /PCM

I just thought of this.............you might check around in your neck of the woods to see if someone has WinOS (a universal tuning software platform that is more popular in Europe\Australia\New Zealand that I know has been used to tune Ford ECUs...........) so they can go in your ECU & reprogram the cooling fan profile (really this is all you need to be reprogrammed or "tuned" in your car's calibration.......) back to the OEM cooling fan profile settings.

You might also get in contact w\ the folks at HP Academy (Andre Simon is the head man\tuner) to see if they can direct you to someone who can do this in Europe as well. Andre has put out a YouTube instruction video on using this WinOS software (they can also train folks to use this as well..........of course, for a fee.....).

Hope this helps.

 

[brasil]

... yesterday I recieved the information..that my car was "flashed " before it was sold here in Germany. The tune used was a SCT ( don´t know 3.4 or what ever because the guy who made it, does not remember where the " Flasher Unit " is right now
Called the former owner ( he had the car for 13 years ) and he said , that he didn´t knew that the Mustang was "Flashed " and he also did not get the "Flasher Unit " when be bought the car.. back in 2011. I believe the guy..because he is an elderly man - 70-75 years ..and he took care of the Mustang... for sure.

So now I am in a situation, that sucks. Because the Ford "dealers" here in the "land of no more hope" are not willing to reflash the car with a factory set up....

Any ideas what I can do now ??

Buying another PCM from a 2010 Mustang ? Will that work...??

 

[StockishS197]

... yesterday I recieved the information..that my car was "flashed " before it was sold here in Germany. The tune used was a SCT ( don´t know 3.4 or what ever because the guy who made it, does not remember where the " Flasher Unit " is right now
Called the former owner ( he had the car for 13 years ) and he said , that he didn´t knew that the Mustang was "Flashed " and he also did not get the "Flasher Unit " when be bought the car.. back in 2011. I believe the guy..because he is an elderly man - 70-75 years ..and he took care of the Mustang... for sure.

So now I am in a situation, that sucks. Because the Ford "dealers" here in the "land of no more hope" are not willing to reflash the car with a factory set up....

Any ideas what I can do now ??

Buying another PCM from a 2010 Mustang ? Will that work...??

You don’t need to buy another PCM.

All you need to do is buy a new SCT device and reach out to a reputable remote tuner.

They can write you a new tune from scratch using the PCM code + mods you currently have

 

[JC SSP]

Shouldnt he be able with an SCT adjust the high and low fans without a custom tune?

I remember it being on one of the main menus… similar to turning off the rear O2.

 

[brasil]

.. I watched some videos from SCT.. they are talking about a "93 Octane tune "...I think, that´s the one I have. ( but I am not 100% sure )
I made a test drive..with my AUTEL MAX PRO, and a Bulb connected to the LOW Fan circuit. So when the ECT reached 190 F ..the low fan kicked in.. and while driving like a granny, the ECT was between 190F -194 F.. but as soon as I switched from "granny " to grannys son.. the ECT went up..195..196 F ( remember at 198 F the HIGH fan comes into the game..also. So The tune is probably very aggressive ? I.E. ignition Curve / injection time...
So this tune needs the fan ..to keep the engine in a safe harbor .

Interesting is also, that the fan does not turn off until I turn the engine off. Even on the highway with 70-80 mph... the low fan ist working.. ( HVAC off !!)

 

[brasil]

@ StockishS197.. I don´t know the exact Model of the SCT Tune, that was used . All I know ist that the tune /flash was installed in June 2009... and that a SCT Divice was used.

 

[brasil]

Update...

Found a Ford Garage.. in East Germany.. ( yes in the East -former DDR - , where in the past only the Trabant (a tiny little car made of fiber and wool ( no joke ) with 600 cc 2 cyl 2 stroke are the "prefered " car of the working class )

The owner of the garage is a well known Ford Mustang tuner here in Germany- since 1995.

So october the 24th, I have an appointment , for playing the OEM software from Ford on my PCM.

Keeping my fingers crossed..that the appointment will end sucssessfully

 

[GlassTop09]

Update...

Found a Ford Garage.. in East Germany.. ( yes in the East -former DDR - , where in the past only the Trabant (a tiny little car made of fiber and wool ( no joke ) with 600 cc 2 cyl 2 stroke are the "prefered " car of the working class )

The owner of the garage is a well known Ford Mustang tuner here in Germany- since 1995.

So october the 24th, I have an appointment , for playing the OEM software from Ford on my PCM.

Keeping my fingers crossed..that the appointment will end sucssessfully

Just to put this here................

If the car is operating fine everywhere else as currently tuned, the only thing that needs to be changed in the tune is the cooling fan profile........just reset it back to the OEM cooling fan profile settings in your current tune, save, reflash then all should be good to go from there.

Now if you also want to go further....................you can then get w\ the tuner at that time to take it further if you wish to.

Hope this helps.

 

[brasil]

@ GlassTop09
I will go back to OEM .. because I don‘t know what was changed .. ignition curve , fuel injection ..
so going back to stock , is good for me . Even a stockish 4.6 is a real fast car , and when in stock condition a very reliable car .

 

[GlassTop09]

@ GlassTop09
I will go back to OEM .. because I don‘t know what was changed .. ignition curve , fuel injection ..
so going back to stock , is good for me . Even a stockish 4.6 is a real fast car , and when in stock condition a very reliable car .

I agree w\ all that you've posted from a general POV.......the only thing to remember when\if going back to stock tune cal from an aftermarket tune cal is that 1. the car still has the OEM airbox\CAI installed (or you have a non-tune needed aftermarket CAI installed) so that this is compatible w\ the OEM tune cal's calibrated MAF transfer function (which will have been calibrated based off the OEM CAI's MAF section ID sizing) & 2. the car is still using the same MY OEM fuel injectors that came stock from the factory--thus the same fuel injector data that's in the same MY OEM tune cal (that was used to achieve the OEM tune's MAF calibration) --to eliminate issues when going back to a stock tune cal from an aftermarket tune cal.

But the tuner you're going to should already know this so all should go well for you.

Something to consider along the way. In the end it's your car & your choice to make................hope all comes out as you want it to.

 

[brasil]

as far as i can see.. the airbox and the injectors are the OEM ones.. so the OEM File should work

 

[Juice]

.. I watched some videos from SCT.. they are talking about a "93 Octane tune "...I think, that´s the one I have. ( but I am not 100% sure )
I made a test drive..with my AUTEL MAX PRO, and a Bulb connected to the LOW Fan circuit. So when the ECT reached 190 F ..the low fan kicked in.. and while driving like a granny, the ECT was between 190F -194 F.. but as soon as I switched from "granny " to grannys son.. the ECT went up..195..196 F ( remember at 198 F the HIGH fan comes into the game..also. So The tune is probably very aggressive ? I.E. ignition Curve / injection time...
So this tune needs the fan ..to keep the engine in a safe harbor .

Interesting is also, that the fan does not turn off until I turn the engine off. Even on the highway with 70-80 mph... the low fan ist working.. ( HVAC off !!)

Im familiar with sct 93 octane tune (atleast on the 5.0 4v). It does not modify fan settings by itself. Whoever tuned it, made the changes to the fan setting.

Trabant - those things are still around?? Guess the body will never ever rust! Back in the 60s/70s, the fuel choice at the pump was what ratio 2smoke oil you want. No shit.

 

[brasil]

.. Trabant is nowadays a collecters car. No joke. But they can rust... because the "frame " is made of "steel "... awful cars - in my opinon.

About the SCT Tune.. As I said before, Nobody knows what was modified back in 2009.. So perhaps the first owner ( who was a computer guy) played with the handheld tuner...but he and the tuner are gone.. (RIP) .

So for me it is the best to go back to " Start " .. and use the OEM software.