Interesting Noise at Idle

Adomis63

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Hey folks, I'm hoping you all might be able to help me pinpoint the source of a noise my '07 gt is making at idle.

The noise it makes is sort of a light knocking/tapping sound.
-It doesn't happen right away from a cold start - it takes a minute or two before it becomes audible.
-On warm starts it doesn't happen right away either but it comes back much quicker than a cold start.
-I've taken a stethoscope to it and hear it best towards the firewall side of the driver's valve cover though that's not the only place I could hear it with the scope.
-Noise is consistent and hasn't gotten any louder or quieter since I've taken it out this year.
-Pressing the clutch pedal doesn't seem to make a change in the noise
-Noise happens at idle and follows the speed of the engine until about 1100rpm and then if the noise is really difficult to either hear or it goes away.
-Definitely seems louder from under the car

I replaced a bunch of timing stuff and rollers/adjusters this winter and the noise persisted. The car got a new "clutch kit" installed by a local shop about 5k miles ago. I mention this because a buddy of mine had a good listen to it and took it for a drive and said he once had an automatic tranny make a similar noise and maybe it was the flywheel, other than that... I'm quite baffled.

Here's some sound clips:
(Under the car)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x6ZjNLKC14DiUVG0VYkKqjwNAAbCeYzA/view?usp=sharing

(In the car - please excuse the rock tumblers noise they're quite loud)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R_MfI7DJ9VKSQD1Z3B_cHjRMi3xQAurv/view?usp=sharing

It otherwise runs really good.
Thanks all!
 

Adomis63

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I got a ford performance timing kit from summit racing and ford performance followers/adjusters from a dealer. I did not change the solenoids though.
 

lenko

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Had similar noise so a couple of months ago replaced Phaser and solenoid on the passenger side and noise is gone.
MELLING MEL VCTA-
1000 Variable Valve Timing (VVT) Sprocket
States
MELLING MEL VCTS-
1000
Variable Valve Timing (VVT) Solenoid / Actuator
 

Adomis63

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I put melling oil and water pumps on but I wonder what the quality would be for timing components. I've heard good results from OEM parts generally.

I'm thinking of trying a new Solenoid on the driver side since thats the side that is making the noise.
 

vxr500

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My car makes the exact same noise under the same conditions. I’m pretty sure it’s cam phaser knock/tick. Been doing it for the last 2 years/15k miles and hasn’t gotten any worse or affected power/drivability.
 

Juice

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My odd off idle tic, which I believe was/is phaser rattle, has gone away since my last tune update.
 
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My engine has made noises for years and I tried to have the dealer look at it but I was modded and they wouldn't. Almost twenty years later she still runs strong but when I have hard acceleration it makes tapping noises and eventually goes away but only when lanching on interstates not streets now I just go fast around town that's about it. When I had the supercharger installed I jumped on it one time and it quit then of all things Brenspeed didn't tell my shop that I had to get a bigger fuse for the new fuel pump booster. Since then I haven't really gotten on it on the highway because of the feeling of what happens next but my shop assured me that it would be okay. Anyway, I'm rambling. I have asked my friend Dino about it once and he explains it could be many things. One guy told me something about the valves. Anyway, I even raced a guy once against my better judgment and did top speed and it still runs like a raped ape. Who knows I do know I love my car.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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I got a ford performance timing kit from summit racing and ford performance followers/adjusters from a dealer. I did not change the solenoids though.
In that case you should also replace the VCT solenoids to prevent future phaser problems and timing chain tensioner failure. If the solenoids are gummed up with oil varnish, they won't be able to supply the oil pressure required to maintain proper phaser function and keep the tensioners fully extended. I'd even go as far as saying you should always replace the VCT solenoids whenever you need to replace the timing kit.
 

GriffX

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did a frequency analysis. Noise occurs every 175 ms. If your ide speed is 700 rpm, that means the noise is on every 2nd crankshaft rotation, which is the speed of the camshaft.
 
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mustanger

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It could be an exhaust leak. I had a similar noise last year and at first thought for sure it was a lifter or the valve train or an extra noisy fuel injector. I think I was only hearing it at lower rpms as well. Turns out it was an exhaust leaks at the manifold. I was running headers with whatever gaskets came with the headers though. I replaced them with the factory style gaskets and the noise went away.
 

Adomis63

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I'd even go as far as saying you should always replace the VCT solenoids whenever you need to replace the timing kit.

I wish they would've included them in the kit because I woulda put them in if they did. Honestly I only did all the timing gear because I knew I had a blown out chain tensioner. The inside was super clean to my surprise. The local dealer parts guy chuckled and said they have a lot of them in stock haha.

did a frequency analysis. Noise occurs every 175 ms. If your ide speed is 700 rpm, that means the noise is on every 2nd crankshaft rotation, which is the speed of the camshaft.

Thank you for doing the math! I wasn't 100% sure if it was slow enough of a noise to be top end or not.

With this many miles I guess an exhaust leak is always a possibility. I'll throw some solenoids in it and cross my fingers.
 

Adomis63

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Just a late update in case anyone was curious: replaced driver side VCT solenoid and it did not effect the noise. Half of the bottom screen came apart in my hands when I took it out though.
 

GriffX

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Just a guess, wasn't there an issue with the gasket of the chain tensioner? When it leaked oil the camshaft roller followers did not get enough and makes a clicking noise?
 

Adomis63

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Yes, I know my passenger side tensioner had blown its gasket. However, I replaced all that in a timing kit I did over the winter. Along with roller followers and lash adjusters - I'd like to think I didn't get a bad one right outta the box!

With a mechanics stethoscope I hear it best on the lower, rearmost valve cover bolt and the exhaust manifold. I have not tried to listen for it underneath the car yet, though.
 

white95

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Man, mine does the same shit. At first, I thought it was an idler pulley. When it was determined to be in the cam/timing related realm, I decided to install a new phaser and some better cams at the same time.

The result:


It doesn’t run rough, isn’t down on power or any other noticeable issues except for sounding like a bucket. Several years back (2017) we installed metal chain tensioners and they were in good working order after only 7k miles.

Fucking Mustangs :)
 
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Erti

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Szia, ugyanez a hangom hidegről indítva. a főtengely csapágyak jók, a szelepsor jó, a láncfeszítők jók. 4.6 3v 70e mérföld és erősen fut. Ha tud valamit kérem jelezze
 

redfirepearlgt

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Experienced both cam phaser and separator plate issues on my 2005. The separator plate rattle sounds very much like the old loose heat shield rattle on a cat when they had them years ago. It's a sheet metal rattle sound. The crank hub comes into contact with the separator plate after warmup. Opening the clearance home in the plate resolves the issue. The sound came from the center of the car and was audible inside the car when driving...usually at lower RPM (>2200) as you throttled up normally. Mine was generated in 2nd gear. What is in reply 16 video is not separator plate noise as it was not audible from the front if the car or when sitting in place. Nor does it sound like that. Its a clatter sound of sheet metal.

The cam phaser sound? Its induced interference between the valve and piston when it fails. At least that was my case. It was a clear and concise knock when it occurred. generated by valve to piston interference caused when the phaser fails. Tons of youtube videos to watch that demonstrate various levels of camphaser noise/failure. Many are of F150 5.4L 3V which use the very same camphaser tech as in the 05-09 Mustang GT.

Good luck
 

Adomis63

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I have to admit I haven’t done anything about the noise yet, figured I would wait until winter when it’s sitting in the garage anyway.

My plan was to try and get a new phaser through warranty, though I haven’t looked to see what the warranty on a ford performance timing kit is from summit. I had been emailing FordTechMakuloco from YouTube who does a TON of 3v stuff he - suggested I could get it replaced under warranty for phaser knock - but also that this particular knock at idle is caused by loose tolerance between the locking pin in the phaser and the hole it locks into on the camshaft which isn’t usually something to be worried about.

As far as separator plate noises… I’ve been hearing a tapping noise from what seems my shifter when “giving it the beans” in 2nd or 3rd. I figured it was just the bushings in my sloppy hurst short throw. Another thing to add to the winter maintenance list.
 

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