LIGHT WHEELS?
- Thread starter Tony Conti
- Start date
Tony Conti
Member
Damn, ok well I could buy all that stuff but I'm just not trying to put too much money into it for right now. I plan on building this car over time. I guess I could get the wheels and tires and just use those on track and keep what I have now for the street. Obviously, you know what you're talking about here so it sounds like when I'm ready that those sve's will probably be my setup.
Yeah I found that out real quick
At the time I needed to put a new set of tires on it because I bought it when it had a set of dry rotted coopers and the indys fit the budget at the time.
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They have their place in the market. A viable option if you are using them as they are intended.
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
True. Over the years there have been a few comparisons made between car weight or engine power and tire or wheel widths, and at 3550 lbs or so, 8.5" wide wheels aren't much above what you'd find on a mildly sporty family sedan. S550 PP1 wheels (9"/9.5") are only beginning to get a little serious.
Norm
Multiple users and tire rack disagree, this is one of the best bang for the buck tires on the market.
Look up Strengthrehab on this site. He uses these at the track and his car is fast.
I am using them as well on my mustang and my SVT focus as well.
I agree with Racer47. Start with figuring out what tires you want to use and then go from there with wheels. Apex has a great s197 fitment page to figure out your options, but there are lots of wheels with the proper sizing. As said I would focus more on correct sizing than absolute lowest weight. Lots (most?) people prefer a square setup for road course track days. If these are dedicated track tires then it's simpler, you just get the widest and stickiest tires you can and you're kind of done with it. If dual use street and track you may want to compromise ultimate width for better daily driving manners. Be aware that while racing tires are still largely available in 18", a lot of the best 200tw tires such as the RE71 have moved to pretty much 19" only if you want the bigger sizes (295/305, etc.).
Wingrider
GT500 track guy
Wheels (and tires) are just a single part of a huge system that you'll be working on. Keep the wheels for now and spend just a portion of that money on track pads and a good brake fluid that won't boil over. Get to know the car this way first so you can then even tell if the new tires and wheels mattered for your driving style. If you an overly aggressive learner, you'll destroy your new tires just as easily as the ones you have now. If you want to spurge on the driveshaft, go for it. I have a DSS CF drive shaft and the difference is noticeable plus it is a good idea overall for weight and how it changes engine response. You may get out there and it won't be your thing more than once or twice and you've spent big money on wheels and tires that will sit or get sold for half. Unless you have a natural gift, swapping to new tires and wheels are not going to help you at the start. If anything, learning the limits of the car with the tires you have now will help you. Breaking later with better pads and carrying more speed will matter.
IF you do go the tires/wheels route, Apex has sales and group buys often so they can be had for 1k or so plus tires. The TPS sensors got crazy expensive.
IF you do go the tires/wheels route, Apex has sales and group buys often so they can be had for 1k or so plus tires. The TPS sensors got crazy expensive.
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Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
Bang for the buck is strictly a relative thing. Rating its handling against tires in higher categories is something else entirely.
While the Indy 500's probably are a very good tire from within Tire Rack's UHP Summer category, there are two categories above that. Perhaps it almost belongs one level up in the Max Perf Summer category along with Michelin's PSS and PS4S, though I strongly suspect it wouldn't look as good against the stronger competition at that level.
Norm
Either way, the brand of the tires is far from the limiting factor on the OP's car. The size and wheel width just isn't adequate for these cars.
Greg D
Junior Member
I love the nostalgic look of the wheels you picked for your ride. However, there's an additional tip for good road-racing wheels... Pick a wheel that has the least mass at the outer rim and yet retains its strength through good design. Here's a wheel I picked from Team Dynamics Motorsport:
And the 427R has a blower.... and your car is NA.
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Let me start by saying I have been doing HPDE track days for 20 years. So I have been through a few set of tires of various brands. From street/rain to full slicks. And from actual laptimes, I have come to the following conclusion: Tire compund is way more important than tire size.
On the car in my sig, the three main tires I have run are: 275/45/17 NT01 (from my fox body), 285/35/19 R888R, and 245/35/18 Hankook Ventus slicks. The Hankooks are by far the smallest and narrowest of the three. Yet, I got my best laptimes at WGI with them. The largest, the R888Rs came close, but were about 2 seconds a lap slower.
Think about that. For the Hankooks, I have a set of 2010 18x8 stock wheels.
On the car in my sig, the three main tires I have run are: 275/45/17 NT01 (from my fox body), 285/35/19 R888R, and 245/35/18 Hankook Ventus slicks. The Hankooks are by far the smallest and narrowest of the three. Yet, I got my best laptimes at WGI with them. The largest, the R888Rs came close, but were about 2 seconds a lap slower.
Think about that. For the Hankooks, I have a set of 2010 18x8 stock wheels.
Flusher
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Are those American Racing Wheels?
Tony Conti
Member
Tony Conti
Member
I love the nostalgic look of the wheels you picked for your ride. However, there's an additional tip for good road-racing wheels... Pick a wheel that has the least mass at the outer rim and yet retains its strength through good design. Here's a wheel I picked from Team Dynamics Motorsport:
I always wanted my mustang to look how it dies now with the current wheel setup. Planned on having these as just street wheels.
Tony your car looks fantastic, I love the look. But I do suspect you may be a little frustrated with that setup on a road course. The big diameter rear tires and large front-rear stagger are going to make you slower coming off the apex, and are likely to give you quite a bit of push all through the corner.
I respect the "just drive it" attitude but nothing makes a bigger difference than tires and your current setup isn't ideal for what you're trying to do. There's nothing wrong with that and just having fun and experimenting, but just be aware there is room for improvement for sure on the road course.
Again, great looking ride!
I respect the "just drive it" attitude but nothing makes a bigger difference than tires and your current setup isn't ideal for what you're trying to do. There's nothing wrong with that and just having fun and experimenting, but just be aware there is room for improvement for sure on the road course.
Again, great looking ride!
No, there are not 12 pound wheels for Mustangs. That is either a misprint (the link didn't work) or some absurdly small size. Come on guys, you gotta think things through sometimes.
Enkei does make some of the lightest wheels out there, however. This 18.5 pound 18x10.5" wheel was freakishly light. But....
The problems with looking at Enkei are twofold: 1) Their RPF1 wheels have very poor caliper clearance, and it takes a spacer to clear any of the 14" Brembo or bigger brakes (above left). 2) They don't make size that fit these cars. Their 18x10.5" wheel fits the front but pokes like mad in the rear (above right). I posted about all of this here TEN YEARS AGO. They don't have any new fitments that work any better.
Late model Mustangs like the S197 benefit more from WIDER wheels than narrow/smaller than stock. Cornering, accelerating, braking - all do better with more tire. And to support more tire width, you need wheel width. 18x11" with 315/30/18 tires (above) or 19x11" with 305/30/19 are the common choices.
As for realistic weights for these wider wheels, the 18x11" F14 above is 22.8 pounds and the 19x11" F14 is 26.7 pounds. That's pretty common for a flow formed wheel. Pure cast wheels will weigh more (by up to 10 pounds) for 2/3rds the price and forged monoblock wheels will weight 1-3 pounds lighter, per wheel, with equivalent strength (for 2x or 3x the price).
Cheers,
Wow... Snarky much?
One of the photos below is from Tire Rack's website.... Says 12.1 pounds... (What I realized after going back to check was that was for the 15x7 wheel) ... Yes, I admit, an unreasonable size for an S197 Mustang, but not "absurdly small" like on a Miata or Mini Cooper
In my defense, I was hastily trying to post a reply to the OP about "light wheels". As you pointed out... Enkei PF01's are some of the lightest "racing" wheels out there and at a pretty reasonable price.
1010Tires website (pic below) has the spec for the Enkei 18 x 10.5 PFO1 at 22.75 pounds... Heavier than the 18.5 pounds shown in your first pic for a very similar size (18x10) but still pretty darn light... And at ~$400 a wheel / ~$1200 a set.
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I used a 255-45-18 on the same chrome bullitt 18 x9 rim... worked good on the front. Then I tried a 275-40-18 on the same 18 x 9 rim.... not impressed. Too sluggish / un responsive. Felt...'rubbery'. I hated it. Then tried the same 275-40-18 tire..but on a wider 18 x 10 rim.. ( fronts). This worked real good, rubber was stretched 1/2" over the 9.5" measuring width. Presently using 285-40-18 on 18 x 10 fronts, good but not quite as responsive as the 275 on same rim. ( but vastly better than the 275 on the 18 x 9 rim). A 285 front ideally should be on a 10.5" rim. Norm has his 285's on 11" rims.
Rears are 305-35-19 on 19 x 10 rims. Wasted effort. They need to be on 11" wide rims.
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
Probably won't be much difference in weight, but you really need to be looking at offsets more in the +35 to +40 range.1010Tires website (pic below) has the spec for the Enkei 18 x 10.5 PFO1 at 22.75 pounds... Heavier than the 18.5 pounds shown in your first pic for a very similar size (18x10) but still pretty darn light... And at ~$400 a wheel / ~$1200 a set.
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I hope the 1010 people aren't listing those Product Codes for S197 Mustangs - 10.5" at +15 offset would poke badly on both ends of an S197, think offroad-Jeep bad.
Norm
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