Livernois Phaser Limiters....Anyone use them?

[Kalatrax]

After doing my cams a friend of mine wants to do a set as well and brought these to my attention. I knew Livernois had the lockouts but these are limiters and weird ones at that. They don't look like they would be as reliable as Comp's.

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/products/Ford-4.6{47}5.4L-3%2dValve-Cam-Phaser-Limiter-Kit.html

 

[AnotherS197GT]

Why don't you think they would be reliable? I would probably take the spring out before I used them, but other than that, they seem like they would be fine. It just doesn't take up as much space as a lock out.

 

[07 procharger]

Running them since 2009, not one issue.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

We sell and use these products on a regular basis. No problems

 

[Kalatrax]

Why don't you think they would be reliable? I would probably take the spring out before I used them, but other than that, they seem like they would be fine. It just doesn't take up as much space as a lock out.

The spring is what allows for variable timing to still occur.

We sell and use these products on a regular basis. No problems

I have no doubt in the quality of your products, the spring is what concerns me though. I feel like it could wear out and have more give over time allowing more timing than the motor can allow with big cams.

 

[AnotherS197GT]

The spring is what allows for variable timing to still occur.

I think the reason the spring is in there is to keep the limiter from just flying around. The cam phaser moves on its own due to oil pressure, and the limiters/lockouts just prevent it from moving. That teeny, tiny spring would never be able to combat the massive spring in the phaser.

See how the lockout takes up the whole slot in the phaser?

The limiter would take up less space, and would be free to rattle around in the phaser (not that I think that would be an issue). The little spring is probably just there to keep tension so the two halves aren't just vibrating around in the phaser.

(Bad picture, but the only one I could find of them installed)

 

[Kalatrax]

I think the reason the spring is in there is to keep the limiter from just flying around. The cam phaser moves on its own due to oil pressure, and the limiters/lockouts just prevent it from moving. That teeny, tiny spring would never be able to combat the massive spring in the phaser.

See how the lockout takes up the whole slot in the phaser?

The limiter would take up less space, and would be free to rattle around in the phaser (not that I think that would be an issue). The little spring is probably just there to keep tension so the two halves aren't just vibrating around in the phaser.

(Bad picture, but the only one I could find of them installed)

I see, I was under the impression that the spring actually played a role in how far they were able to move. The spring is only there to apply pressure when they are separated as to disallow them from moving around. Is that correct?

 

[skwerl]

The spring is simply to keep them aligned properly. Installing them without the spring could lead to failure IMO as they could rotate around in place due to vibration and then lock up against each other. Why would you install them without the spring?

I have these in my phasers and they work perfectly. My tuner has commented that the timing advance is exactly where he's commanding it.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I see, I was under the impression that the spring actually played a role in how far they were able to move. The spring is only there to apply pressure when they are separated as to disallow them from moving around. Is that correct?

The spring is really not necessary but it keeps them separated and gives a certain level of comfort. The two pieces don't have enough room to get turned around. The other company that makes a kit there parts are free floating. Im not saying it bad just different.

We also use aluminum so there is a minimal amount of imbalance created by the extra weight. For strength the aluminum is also Anodized to prevent premature wear.

We have had this design around since 2005 with no problems. I prefer to leave some of the limiting function for camshaft retarding at high RPMs. Although the larger cams don't need nearly the movement the stock cams use to achieve optimum power.

LME

 

[BruceH]

I've run both and prefer the Livernois version.

 

[retfr8flyr]

Livernois are the only way to go for phaser limiters. You can read about my experience with the Comp Cams version here. http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92049

I wouldn't recommend the Comp Cams limiters to anyone, in fact I still have them as I wouldn't sell someone something that I think is a POS.

I now run the Livernois limiters without any problems.


Earl

 

[weather man]

I use em, so far, so good.

 

[Kalatrax]

The spring is really not necessary but it keeps them separated and gives a certain level of comfort. The two pieces don't have enough room to get turned around. The other company that makes a kit there parts are free floating. Im not saying it bad just different.

We also use aluminum so there is a minimal amount of imbalance created by the extra weight. For strength the aluminum is also Anodized to prevent premature wear.

We have had this design around since 2005 with no problems. I prefer to leave some of the limiting function for camshaft retarding at high RPMs. Although the larger cams don't need nearly the movement the stock cams use to achieve optimum power.

LME

My mistake, misunderstood the concept. It's a bummer I didn't know these were around a few months ago. I would have used this instead being that it looks much easier to install.

Livernois are the only way to go for phaser limiters. You can read about my experience with the Comp Cams version here. http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92049

I wouldn't recommend the Comp Cams limiters to anyone, in fact I still have them as I wouldn't sell someone something that I think is a POS.

I now run the Livernois limiters without any problems.


Earl

I have the new style phasers and don't understand what exactly you mean. The comp limiters fit the same as my stock plate did flushness wise. I didn't measure the bolt penetration but it seemed the same as stock to me.

 

[retfr8flyr]

The plate is around ¼ in thick, that's ¼ inch less the bolt protrudes on the other side to hold the spring. In the old design it didn't matter because the spring had assistance to stay in position but with the new design the only thing holding the spring in position are the ends of the 2 bolts. Hell the tool that they include doesn't even work with the new design. I just think it's a poor design but that's just my opinion, if you never hit the rev limiter you may be fine. I voted with my feet, over to Livernois. I've never had any problems with any of their parts.


Earl

 

[Scott]

Had the Limiters in my build as they came with the FRPP heads. Did not work for me as one of the springs broke. Went with the Livernois Lockouts. Here is an install pick of a Limiter. As far as I know they were installed correctly as I sent pictures to FRPP and they said I was good to go. My experience for what is is worth.

 

[scramblr]

I've had them on since 2009 as well and no issues.

 

[klaw]

I've had them in since 2008 - no issues.

 

[Roadracer350]

Ok this may be a stupid question but how do you know which slot to put the limiters or lockouts?

 

[skwerl]

Ok this may be a stupid question but how do you know which slot to put the limiters or lockouts?

I simply copied what Scott did in his build thread because he's a perfectionist and I'm sure he spent lots of time researching that question. He put his in the slot next to the number 2 engraved in the phaser so I did the same.

 

[Scott]

I simply copied what Scott did in his build thread because he's a perfectionist and I'm sure he spent lots of time researching that question. He put his in the slot next to the number 2 engraved in the phaser so I did the same.

Hahahah, good answer! Ok I did send pictures to Ford Racing Tech Support and received confirmation they were installed correctly. However, I have absolutely no explanation for finding the broken limiter spring in one of the phaser when it was disassembled.