Modding a 4.6 vs a Coyote

[foxxxtman]

Subject kind of says it all, I know there are plenty out there that have a ton of experienc with both. If I were to pull the 4.6 3v engine and either forge it or replace it with something like a Brenspeed 302 would it make somewhat similar power to a built coyote engine running similar boost or are the Coyote engines that much superior?

I ask because I'm really kind of to that point on my car, it has the Paxton Novi 2200SL H.O. kit on it so there is plenty of room to up the boost once I get it forged but do you all see the 3v engines capable of making the power that a built Coyote would without having to run a ton more boost?

I'm just kind of gauging whether it's worth dumping the additional money into a 3v setup or if one would be a lot better off with the newer setup.

 

[stkjock]

no

5.0>4.6 boost to boost

 

[foxxxtman]

Would that also apply to a stroker block with like Brenspeed 302? Is the coyote that much better than a 3v with equal displacement/boost?

 

[blownGTvert]

A coyote conversion will be much more expensive than just a built short block. You already have the Paxton kit for your 3v. Either a forged rotating assembly or aluminator short block at this point.

I've shown my tail lights to more than one boosted coyote with my "inferior" 3V. You can make some big power with your Paxton 2200 on a built 3V.

 

[Captainstr8edge]

I would say a swap would not be worth it, but if you were to trade in for a new 5.0 it probably would be. I've been contemplating trading up soon myself.

 

[go302]

You can make 1000+ wheel on a 3v and 700-750 on pump for the street. Don't know why you'd need more than that.

 

[stkjock]

Would that also apply to a stroker block with like Brenspeed 302? Is the coyote that much better than a 3v with equal displacement/boost?

yes, all other things being equal. The Coyote head just flows more air.

 

[Riptide]

If I wasn't going to have to deal with swapping out my kenne bell. And putting in a built auto. I would've kept my 3v.

The danger zone on a stock 3v is around 500. On a coyote its 600ish. 100 is nothing to sneeze at but I don't consider it to be that big a deal.

I agree with go302.


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[foxxxtman]

Well, that makes me a little happier then! I like the fact that my car is a 2008 and i'm not afraid to get in and do things to it for fear of voiding the warranty (since it no longer has one). I'm pushing about 500 right now but plan on forging the bottom end or going with a forged shortblock. I guess now the only thing is to decide if I want a stroker or to just bore it a bit and go non-stroker. I plan to push around 15 pounds of boost because I hear that much more than that is when you want to start going with race gas and such because the other gets too unstable.

Any quick opinions on stroker vs non stroker? I guess if I went non-stroker that I could likely re-use my current crank if I wanted to save money since it's rumored they're good for around 700 or so horsepower. I guess the rods/pistons are the weak links.

 

[go302]

I'm a fan of stock stroke. You can easily find cheap forged cranks. Bought two for less than 300 shipped each 3 weeks apart.

 

[AnotherS197GT]

If I were going to build my engine tomorrow, I would keep the stock crank and throw a set of rods and pistons in there and bump the compression. I really like what BruceH does when he builds engines. He builds some really awesome stuff for cheap. You might want to talk to him about building your engine. I know he has expressed some interest in building engines for forum members recently.

 

[Riptide]

I would trust bruce no prob.


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[Sactown]

I've shown my tail lights to more than one boosted coyote with my "inferior" 3V. You can make some big power with your Paxton 2200 on a built 3V.

^^^ What he said

 

[v8venomgt]

What I'd like to know is what is the difference in peak numbers and torque curve with things being equal as possible. A 4.6 3v thats been bored or stroked to a 302, pistons yielding the same/comporable compression ratio to a coyote powerplant, same power adder, same fuel, same rear end ratio, and both cars running a tr6060. I have no doubt the coyote heads will still propel the coyote power plant more efficiently, but to what extent?

 

[stkjock]

What I'd like to know is what is the difference in peak numbers and torque curve with things being equal as possible. A 4.6 3v thats been bored or stroked to a 302, pistons yielding the same/comporable compression ratio to a coyote powerplant, same power adder, same fuel, same rear end ratio, and both cars running a tr6060. I have no doubt the coyote heads will still propel the coyote power plant more efficiently, but to what extent?

good question - but one I don't think we'd ever see answered.

 

[foxxxtman]

If I were going to build my engine tomorrow, I would keep the stock crank and throw a set of rods and pistons in there and bump the compression. I really like what BruceH does when he builds engines. He builds some really awesome stuff for cheap. You might want to talk to him about building your engine. I know he has expressed some interest in building engines for forum members recently.

^^ +1, that's more in line with what i'm looking to do honestly. I'd like to get the forged rods and pistons and keep it reasonably priced. I was quoted like $4400 for me to deliver an engine to someone and them build it without the tuning or anything.... granted that was throwing a stroker crank and such in there and a billet oil pump but if I could make it a beast for a couple grand vice almost 5 it would be doable more soon and i've heard that when you stroke them it just adds another place for failure as well. I'm sure everyone has their own opinions, i'm just repeating some things i've heard. I'll have to hit up Bruce, thanks for the info!

 

[TexasBlownV8]

While reading through this, one thing popped out that has to had to the difference: compression ratio. The higher CR on coyote contributes to more power (in addition to the head flow). As such, what happens when you both stroke a 4.6 to 5.0 AND increase CR to around 11 or so? THEN how similar are they?

RE: to the above post, unless you can get the r/a for cheap, it'd be difficult to do a forged build for under $2500-3000. Shop around, look for deals, take your time, and pick up hat you can find at decent prices, and then you stand a chance!

(I'm one of those forged/stroked guys, with a 5.0L stroker 3v, pushing over 700 crank on pump gas at 18 psi. It all fits nicely within the 4.6 setup )

 

[07graygt]

I've read a lot of what Bruceh has to say. His builds are awesome and I'm sure he will say something soon. He has said for a cheap build use stock crank, boss rods less than 200 from tasca and forged pistons. You could also go with the boss block 1100 from tasca and still use stock crank, boss rods and big bore pistons. It would be a little more but then you have 302cu in.

 

[Timmbo]

Go a step further. Give Brenspeed a call about their B326 stroker. It works out to be basically a 5.3L. Thats GT500 territory. The B326 is rated at 1000 flywheel HP. Should be plenty to satisfy your needs.

 

[foxxxtman]

I'm going to drop BruceH a PM, i'm very interested in getting the show on the road! Looking forward to this summer. I'm not as concerned just to say that I have a 5.0 but just want good results at a decent price where i'm not worried that my car is a ticking time-bomb. I usually baby it but I hear 500 is the DANGER ZONE lol.