On ramps for winter, LT header gaskets, trans maintenance

deezdrama

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So... Now just wondering if the jba headers would be a better fitment with more clearance?
After putting that ebay pypes clone header in I seen how difficult it will be to bolt the bottom of the header on... Plus even with the pypes there still may be steering shaft clearance issues.

Wondering if i should consider jba's?
To those of you who have them...what was the reasoning to go with them over pypes since ive read so much about the kooks/pypes performing so good.

Would ceramic coated be worth it?

Problem is i would need to buy a whole different midpipe but if the ceramic + fitment is way better then i may consider it if they are on par with the kooks/pypes performance gains.
I realize headers dont add much gains over the catless midpipe but what extra ponies i do get i want them to be there untill this car is paid off and i supercharge it
 

ghunt81

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Well I don't know if any particular brand has much of an advantage over another on a naturally aspirated car. FWIW I have heard the JBA's are made in Mexico and they are not without their faults either. For example on my original ceramic coated set, the collectors did not line up correctly and it threw off the rest of my exhaust alignment. If you want to eventually supercharge I would say you could look at some 1 3/4 primary headers, but a) your only options there are Pacesetter (mild steel so they won't last), some stainless Pacesetter knockoffs I've seen (but again, unknown quality), Mac (also mild steel but you can get them in chrome), or expensive stuff like Kooks, Stainless Works or Dynatech, and b) you can exceed your safe RWHP with a supercharger even without headers so it's probably not worth it.

I'd say buy whatever you can find the best deal on. If you want to try JBA's, you can find good deals on them (I got mine for $500) and their off road H pipe is cheap ($150). If you have enough confidence to try Pypes, your current midpipe will work with them.

As for heating the end of that tube, I'm not sure about that. Not sure if it would help much as that o-ring is probably made to withstand high temps anyway. If it's spinning freely that kinda sucks. It makes it rougher having it be in aluminum. I still think your best bet may be to try to start bending a side in with a screwdriver or cold chisel and see if you can get it going from there. The o-ring groove is right near the top so if you can get it to where you can get at the o-ring it should come right out.
 

Pentalab

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Really happy I stumbled on this thread. Was going to go cheap LT route, but have definitely decided on JBA ceramics now. Think Steeda motor mounts will be necessary on an 07?

Watch out. JBA offers 2 versions of their ceramic header's. They have 'silver ceramic'...and also
'titanium ceramic'. The titanium ceramic are slightly more expensive.... they are also....'battleship grey' in color. The titanium ceramic version is what I have on my 2010 GT ( + M90 blower, oem 73mm pulley)... the titanium version is good for an extra 100-150 deg F. Zero rust and no discoloration on the ceramic. The LT's and mating hi flow catted H is the one mod that actually did something. Previously I had VMP do a 94 tune for me... b4 the LT install and a subtle improvement. After the LT install, the difference was blatantly obvious... it then pulls like a mofo. Ran slightly lean, so had VMP do a slight tweak on the 94 tune. Then onto the dyno. With the roush 91 tune it was 435 crank hp / 400 ft lbs at the crank. After the LT install, ( + VMP 94 tune) it is 482 crank hp / 470 ft lbs..at the crank. And that's with just 5.8 psi boost.

Even out of boost, it pulls a LOT harder. I have an automatic, and with the oem 1500 rpm stall converter, instant tq...right from idle to 6 krpm, without going into boost. It's like the entire package finally came together. Previously I had installed the FRPP twin 62mm TB + 94 tune..and was under whelmed. Then in went the DSS-DS + Eaton tru-trac LSD + WL watts link. At the time, I bought 2 x identical JBA LT packages, one for myself, and one for a local buddy, who has a NA 08 GT. Same deal on his NA 08, the LT's..with a good tune, and correct AFR, work damn good.

The oem eng mounts are ok, and come with heat shields. JBA said to replace em with steeda eng mounts..which I did. ( note oem eng mount heat shields are re-used). It's a one shot deal..so the LT's and eng mounts installed at the same time. The steeda eng mounts are superb quality..and come with 4 x red poly mounts and 2 x black poly mounts. The black ones are a slightly stiffer durometer. For max effect, one red and one black are used on each mounting assy. What I end up with is a better eng mount overall, vs oem. The oem hydra gel filled, marsh mellow mounts will result in eng moving / flopping side to side as you get on / off the gas pedal. Eng is trying to lift on driver's side, and down on pass side. The steeda mounts result in zero to minimal eng movement. The steeda mounts also give u the option of oem eng ride height, or lower the eng 1/4" - 1/2" - 3/4". We used the 1/4" eng lowering option. That worked great..and zero issues with steering shaft clearance on the LT's.

Eng bay temps dropped a measured 40 deg F. After taking the car to do some errands, I get into the blower abt 3 blocks from home on main drag, wind it up in 2nd gear, pinned into the seat....then slow down, and back in driveway. Eng off, lift hood and I can push down hard with my fingers onto any of the 8 x primary's and not burn my fingers. Everything else under the hood was hot..except the 8 x primarys. That's where the heat redux is coming from, no more blazing hot oem exhaust manifold. That + new hi flo cats reside beneath seats, instead of base of eng bay. That was summer time. More testing done, so it's repeatable results.

The original plan was to just install the smaller 2.49" blower pulley... 3 more psi.. ( and mating larger 90 mm idler). With the LT's and oem 2.785" pulley, what I ended up with is a hair less hp, and a hair less peak TQ, (but greater tq from idle to 3.5 krpm)..vs the smaller blower pulley. The blower only works in blower mode, but the LT's work good in NA or blower mode...which is exactly what I want for a street car. If you do install any brand of LT's, buy new oem exhaust gaskets, don't re-use the originals. They are dirt cheap at AM, or any where else..and are D shaped. JBA offers either a 2.5" or 3.0" collector. I used the 2.5"..since the next section aft is the catted H, also in 2.5". Next section aft of the jba catted H is the oem 2.5", and goes from output of H midsection.... and up and over the axles. With everything 2.5", then it makes for a plug and play install. For my hp level, the 1 5/8" primary's are ample.

Merry Xmas to all of you, take care..and stay safe over the holidays.
 
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mikek2111987

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Watch out. JBA offers 2 versions of their ceramic header's. They have 'silver ceramic'...and also
'titanium ceramic'. The titanium ceramic are slightly more expensive.... they are also....'battleship grey' in color. The titanium ceramic version is what I have on my 2010 GT ( + M90 blower, oem 73mm pulley)... the titanium version is good for an extra 100-150 deg F. Zero rust and no discoloration on the ceramic. The LT's and mating hi flow catted H is the one mod that actually did something. Previously I had VMP do a 94 tune for me... b4 the LT install and a subtle improvement. After the LT install, the difference was blatantly obvious... it then pulls like a mofo. Ran slightly lean, so had VMP do a slight tweak on the 94 tune. Then onto the dyno. With the roush 91 tune it was 435 crank hp / 400 ft lbs at the crank. After the LT install, ( + VMP 94 tune) it is 482 crank hp / 470 ft lbs..at the crank. And that's with just 5.8 psi boost.
This is the one I was looking at. Sounds like it is the correct choice

Https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0050SKFI4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_0QKiCbEF3C9RV

Was also leaning towards no cats, just for money saving
 

deezdrama

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Caved the side in a little and started prying with long skinny screwdriver... At one point it got pushed in a little and wanted to freak out.
Kept at it and eventually got about a half inch out.
IMG_20181225_155424.jpg

It still fought all the way till the end. Its grip didnt give up untill the oring was completely out of the bore. After i got that half a inch out I grabbed it with some beefy needle nose plyers... Kept a constant upward pull while prying. Several times i stopped and heated the bore up for 10-15 seconds with propane torch and pb blasted it.
When i seen the orange o-ring i about started dancing.
What a b****!
IMG_20181225_160159.jpg

Thank you lord!
Oring doesnt look bad so i wonder if bore is corroded or what? Should i try to clean up the bore before installing new one? Maybe some 2000 grit on a dowel then do oil change?
Screenshot_Gallery_20181225-162309.png

Now i can relax and figure out what to run next?
Ceramic jba and midpipe? Do they make catless H?
Or save some money and run pypes with pypes H i already have?


EDIT...........
Just made $2500 selling on ebay. So torn between the tourings and the steeda version stingers. Cant find many video/audio clips of either with catless H pipe let alone catless H and longtubes.... ugggg decisions
 
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ghunt81

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Man glad you got that out. I'm confused by all that corrosion, that's weird. The coating on your dipstick tube must have come off and started to rust.

I think an oil change is in order regardless but I guess cleaning the bore depends on how bad it is. When I installed my new dipstick tube I put anti-sieze on the o-ring.

Anyway as I said above JBA does make an off road H pipe, it's $150 or so.
 

deezdrama

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Just to make certain we're both on the same page, your Ford Racing mufflers could be either part number M-5230-MGTC which is made for the 2010 Mustang GT or M-5230-MSVTC made for the 2010 Shelby GT500, but either way, both are pretty much the exact same muffler with the only exception of possibly having different internal baffling for the M-5230-MSVTC 2010 GT500 over the M-5230-MGTC 2010 Mustang GT.
So if the MGTC's have different internal baffling, are they the same as the borla tourings or no? The 05-09 version can be had for $385
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Racin...:ShippingMethodStandard!62521!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0

I kind of feel jipped if I pay $500 for the same mufflers except tips are 1" longer to accommodate my oddball year 2010.

Ive read several comments about steeda axlebacks sounding the best with 3v 4.6 with LT's and catless... and found several youtube clips of this setup and i do love the sound but cant find any clips of the tourings with this setup and not sure what these ford mufflers will sound like.
I dont want to get the ford tourings and feel like its too tame but also dont want to get the steedas and feel like its too much drone although quoting from that exhaust thread again
"""Steeda has one axle back system, produced by Borla, however not the same as any of the models sold under the Borla or FRPP guises. This one is more similar to the Stinger, but has less packing material for a more Metallic sound. Goes EXTREMELY well with an offroad H pipe, works decently with an offroad x pipe, and would probably work well with a prochamber as well. I have heard this combination (with the offroad h pipe) personally many times, and I think it is easily one of the best sounding exhausts out there, bar none. GURU RECCOMENDED. There is some drone with just the axle backs, but it is VERY mild and VERY tolerable. With the offroad h pipe, the drone disappears for the most part, but the car becomes very loud, especially upon startup."""

I guess I just need to choose and live with it lol...leaning towards the steedas :giveup:

EDIT..... i think im just going to go with the pypes headers.... anyone know who has best deal? Think I will need the steeda motor mounts?

EDIT#2 ....
Steeda had a holiday sale and motor mounts were $135... nabbed the steeda stingers while was there.
Was on AM and the pypes longtubes were $600 after tax... found seller on ebay with high selling score and an automotive store.... named asaperformance.... got em for $536 shipped. Im just hoping there wasnt revisions that changed over the years and this is an older stock .... but i just like to worry. lol
 
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06 T-RED S/C GT

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So if the MGTC's have different internal baffling, are they the same as the borla tourings or no? The 05-09 version can be had for $385
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Racin...:ShippingMethodStandard!62521!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0

I kind of feel jipped if I pay $500 for the same mufflers except tips are 1" longer to accommodate my oddball year 2010.

Ive read several comments about steeda axlebacks sounding the best with 3v 4.6 with LT's and catless... and found several youtube clips of this setup and i do love the sound but cant find any clips of the tourings with this setup and not sure what these ford mufflers will sound like.
I dont want to get the ford tourings and feel like its too tame but also dont want to get the steedas and feel like its too much drone although quoting from that exhaust thread again
"""Steeda has one axle back system, produced by Borla, however not the same as any of the models sold under the Borla or FRPP guises. This one is more similar to the Stinger, but has less packing material for a more Metallic sound. Goes EXTREMELY well with an offroad H pipe, works decently with an offroad x pipe, and would probably work well with a prochamber as well. I have heard this combination (with the offroad h pipe) personally many times, and I think it is easily one of the best sounding exhausts out there, bar none. GURU RECCOMENDED. There is some drone with just the axle backs, but it is VERY mild and VERY tolerable. With the offroad h pipe, the drone disappears for the most part, but the car becomes very loud, especially upon startup."""

I guess I just need to choose and live with it lol...leaning towards the steedas :giveup:

EDIT..... i think im just going to go with the pypes headers.... anyone know who has best deal? Think I will need the steeda motor mounts?

EDIT#2 ....
Steeda had a holiday sale and motor mounts were $135... nabbed the steeda stingers while was there.
Was on AM and the pypes longtubes were $600 after tax... found seller on ebay with high selling score and an automotive store.... named asaperformance.... got em for $536 shipped. Im just hoping there wasnt revisions that changed over the years and this is an older stock .... but i just like to worry. lol

The answer to your question is, yes, the MGTC and MSVTC are both touring axle backs that were made for Ford Racing by Borla. The differences between them are the MGTC was made for the 2010 Mustang GT while the MSVTC was made for the 2010 Shelby GT500. As for what I posted concerning the baffling being different? that is just an assumption on my part, so don't take that as something written in stone. My suggestion is to contact both Ford Performance Parts and Borla to find out straight from the horse's mouth, just to make certain. As for the Ford Racing exhaust system M-5230-GTB link that you posted, that exhaust kit is not the same as the Ford Racing touring exhaust by Borla. The M-5230-GTB exhaust is also referred to as the 2008-09 Bullitt exhaust upgrade kit and will also fit all 2005-09 Mustang GT models. At any rate, my purpose for recommending the MGTC and MSVTC axle back, I was under the impression that you were interested in the Ford Racing Touring mufflers by Borla specifically made for your 2010 GT? However on the other hand, if you prefer to roll the dice by taking the risk of purchasing the 05-09 GTB's? that is entirely your choice. But just keep in mind, that you may end up having fitment issues with the tips not being long enough to accommodate your 2010 GT. As I also mentioned in a previous response, if you're not quite sure about the Steeda Stingers as being too loud or causing too much drone when paired with running an off-road application with long tubes? then you ought to contact the manufacturer as in Steeda's Tech support dept, for they're your best resource for seeking answers to your questions and concerns. Anyhow for what it's worth, regardless of whatever comments you happen to read on the internet as to which axle back has the best sound over the other is concerned? just realize that everyone has a different interpretation/opinion as to which exhaust system sounds best over the other in regards to personal preference. With that being said, I'll just leave it at that.
 
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RocketcarX

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American Muscle sells a Pacesetter clone header in stainless steel. Theses headers have larger primary tubes and fit flawlessly. I have zero clearance issues with the pacesetter headers on my car, my only complaint is them being made of mild steel instead of stainless.
sr-performance-13-4-black-long-tube-headers-0510-gt.html
 
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deezdrama

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Wow... I always skimmed past those thinking they were mild steel. I would of tried those if i hadnt already ordered the pypes and had the pypes short h already. I went on a splurge tonight and feeling guilty lol. Bought headlights, grill, and a bunch of other stuff i didnt need but wanted to replace/upgrade.
You guys keep quiet... Dont tell my ol lady:dead2:
 

mikek2111987

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American Muscle sells a Pacesetter clone header in stainless steel. Theses headers have larger primary tubes and fit flawlessly. I have zero clearance issues with the pacesetter headers on my car, my only complaint is them being made of mild steel instead of stainless.
sr-performance-13-4-black-long-tube-headers-0510-gt.html
Hmm I still haven't pulled the trigger on the JBAs that are over twice the price of those. Could get those and a catted x pipe for the the same price...decisions

Living in Michigan and only driving the car half the year, I'm slightly leaning towards the cheaper ones and hoping they last
 

deezdrama

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Headers will be here Wednesday. I took fri off so that ill have 3 days to make sure i get this done. Also have new headlights, grille, axlebacks to install. Well the steeda version borla stingers didnt ship yet. I got tracking saying they would be here fri and so had my daughter come sit at the house all morning to sign for them since i was at work and only motor mounts came. Packing slip said the axlebacks were "still in production" whatever that means.... Made to order? Weird.... I sent them an email asking for eta but still waiting for reply.

Anyway.... Im in garage just getting ready for headers and looking things over and had a few questions.

#1 which holes do i leave factory studs? I know its to help keep gasket on while installing but i know studs will also hit primarys in certain areas. There was a thread that mentioned which holes to leave studs, and which hole to cut down bolt to clear primary tube when putting bolt in but cant find this info now :angry1:

#2 Am i suppossed to weld the short tubes that connect H pipe to headers? They fit pretty loose together and dont see a clamp closing that gap. I bought butt clamps and step clamps but not thrilled with their quality. The banding seems pretty thin compared to the stock clamps i took off factory H.
IMG_20181230_134536.jpg
IMG_20181230_134548.jpg

#3 .... One of the back o2 sensors was seized in there good and had to torch it out.... Threads are pretty stripped. Should i order new downstream o2 or just leave them out and plug the bungs?
IMG_20181230_134644.jpg

Dont know if it matters but steeda does my tunes untill i get the car where i want it and will take it to a dyno.

#4 ... I got the steeda motor mounts. Should I install them at factory height or with a slight 1/4" drop?
I thought i read before with pypes LT that some people had steering shaft clearance issues untill they lowered motor 1/4". But cant find any info on that now either lol.
IMG_20181230_172451.jpg



Thats it for now.... Thanks guys!
 
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ghunt81

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I don't know about the studs, I used all bolts on mine. My headers had a few slotted holes so I started bolts with the gaskets, then hung the headers on the bolts as I put them up in from the bottom.

As for the clamps- They are supposed to be thin, this is what helps them conform to the pipe. Are the ends of the H pipe slotted? If not you might cut a couple in there to help it tighten down. Trust me, the clamps will do their job. They tighten up real good once the bolts are tight. I use strap clamps on all my exhaust systems now.

Downstream O2's, if you have a tune that turns them off, you can just install plugs. It's definitely easier that way.
 

deezdrama

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Yeah. My 93 oct tune guzzles gas faster than the 10 cylinder e350 i drive to work.
I dont have a laptop to datalog though so was going to deal with it untill i find a dyno tuner nearby
 

deezdrama

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Got the headers today.
$530 shipped and they are legit.
Even came with 2 o2 extender harnesses which i wasnt sure if they would or not.
IMG_20190102_190609.jpg
IMG_20190102_190703.jpg
IMG_20190102_190815.jpg

The ebay headers primary near steering linkage was WAYYY off!

Ebay header
Screenshot_Gallery_20190102-191431.png
Pypes header
IMG_20190102_190941.jpg

Actually... The whole pypes header looks more compact and inline more. I wonder if naughty china kids stole the tubing from work and welded them in some garage with no jig or fixture.
Either that or theres another company who clones the pypes which is clone of kooks :rolleyes:
 
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ghunt81

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Pypes is the original "name brand" Chinese knockoff of Kooks, and then there are even cheaper no-name copies on Ebay. I've also seen ebay chinese knockoffs of JBA's. Those seem to be the two they have copied.

I really think the chinese no-name stuff is slapped together, probably with no jig, or with a bad one. At any rate those look much better, you should be good to go now.
 

deezdrama

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Could anyone confirm these torque specs?

41 ft lbs for engine brackets and mounts

And 46 ft lbs for the mount isolator nut?
Is 46ft lbs going to be too much for the red bushings? I dont want to overtighten them.
Will be using blue threadlocker.
Thanks
 

deezdrama

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The whole job went pretty smooth.
Just time consuming...
These pypes clear the steering shaft with a half inch to spare. I just ran the steeda mounts at stock height.
IMG_20190104_191253.jpg
IMG_20190105_232327.jpg
I got the dipstick tube and lubed it with grease and antiseize and it popped right in unlike how it didnt want to come out.
When i installed the H pipe I read to tighten clamps from 30-40 ft lbs.
I used antiseize on all of them so backed the torque wrench down to 20ft lbs because it just seemed like the wrench was never going to click since the threads were lubed with antiseize.

The whole process went smooth untill the very last friggin 2 bolts. The H area was the last clamp i had to tighten and was getting tired so just kept running it in. It didnt click and so I looked and the damn H section caved in a bit.
Pretty pissed at myself.... Will probably leak there. All the band clamps i have were 2.5" and that H area needs a 2" or 2 1/4" so had to use the damn u-bolt clamp. Was going to look for a band clamp at parts store tomorrow but figured all they had was u-bolts so decided to use the u-bolt pypes provided. That was a mistake.

IMG_20190105_232224.jpg

Caving that area in really pisses me off. Guess its my fault for being in a rush.
What do you guys think i should do?
Just run it and see if it leaks?
Replace with right sized band clamp?
Hope i dont have to have it welded.

I requested a tune from steeda.
Ive only done my initial 93oct jlt cai tune.
I remember reading to flash stock tune back on the car before putting in new tune. Is that right?
Is it ok to start without having tune file yet?
 

07gts197

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Id just the leave it the way it is and see if it leaks. Its gonna be a bitch to get that thing apart to get another clamp on there, just steer into the curve.

You can run it without a tune but youll have a code for the o2 sensors slow to respond.
 

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