Passing inspection without cats..

[01yellerCobra]

Thanks for your response, as you've provided some very valuable info which appears to make the most logical sense in regards to passing the OBDII scan. My question, however, is this. How would the tuning vendor go about disabling the catalyst (cats) along with turning off the rear 02 monitors? It was my understanding that if the rear 02 sensors are turned off in the tune, this would also include the rear 02 monitors as well? But apparently, this would appear to not be accurate, as turning off just the rear 02's themselves does not turn off the rear 02 monitors. Another concern is locating a tuning vendor who not only has the software knowledge but would also be willing to disable/turn off the catalyst and rear 02 monitors. The reason? Thanks to the EPA police cracking down, it's becoming more and more difficult to find a tuning vendor who's even willing to turn off just the rear 02 sensors in their calibration tunes. Tuning vendors such as VMP and AM/BAMA no longer turn off the rear 02 sensors in their tunes thanks to the EPA putting pressure on the performance industry. Therefore it's only going to be a matter of time before other tuning vendors follow suit as well IMHO. Another example is, as more and more states add newer emission machines as you also brought up, it's going to be even more difficult for those running O/R applications to pass the state OBDII emission inspection

There's a way to get the monitors to show up unsupported. But it takes a professional to do it. They have to rewrite some of the code behind the scenes basically. I have a value file for my car that makes the catalyst and EGR show up as unsupported. But now that some machines are counting monitors I elected not to run it.

Simply turning off the rear O2 sensors ONLY, you can run without cats and get NO CEL. But it will keep the catylist, rear O2, and rear O2 monitors from "completing". All 8 monitors are still present, and those 3 will remain "Incomplete" = Fail.

You disable the monitors in a different section in the tune. I have a tune that has ONLY 3 monitors showing up if you scan for OBD readiness. I got it from my tuner a week before the change went into effect with the software.

Now for the bad news regarding SCT. As of Jan 1st, all SCT dealers were forced to update their software, and if they didn't, the software stopped working. And I believe that the new software, the ability to turn off the rear O2 sensors or any other emission component in the tune has been removed. (the result of the lawsuit/fine) And now SCT is EPA legal to modify cars, but cannot disable emission equipment.

Another issue with SCT is the software cannot "pull your tune" from the device. So for minor updates like turning on rear O2, you need to go to the tuner who tuned the car, since he has the tune on his computer. Only he can make those minor changes without needing to write a new tune from scratch.

I'm still waiting to see how this goes. I took the training back in December and as of a couple weeks ago I still have full access to my emission stuff. I can turn on and off whatever I want. How long I'll keep that ability I don't know. It seems the ones that are having issues thought SCT was bluffing and didn't take the training by the dead line. I'll probably be in my software this weekend to make a couple changes. So we'll see what happens at this point.

While it sucks having to have your tuner send you an updated file, at least it can be done through email.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

Simply turning off the rear O2 sensors ONLY, you can run without cats and get NO CEL. But it will keep the catylist, rear O2, and rear O2 monitors from "completing". All 8 monitors are still present, and those 3 will remain "Incomplete" = Fail.

You disable the monitors in a different section in the tune. I have a tune that has ONLY 3 monitors showing up if you scan for OBD readiness. I got it from my tuner a week before the change went into effect with the software.

Now for the bad news regarding SCT. As of Jan 1st, all SCT dealers were forced to update their software, and if they didn't, the software stopped working. And I believe that the new software, the ability to turn off the rear O2 sensors or any other emission component in the tune has been removed. (the result of the lawsuit/fine) And now SCT is EPA legal to modify cars, but cannot disable emission equipment.

Another issue with SCT is the software cannot "pull your tune" from the device. So for minor updates like turning on rear O2, you need to go to the tuner who tuned the car, since he has the tune on his computer. Only he can make those minor changes without needing to write a new tune from scratch.

This is most definitely bad news indeed. So it would seem the only way of getting around the OBD emissions test with an O/R setup, is by rolling the dice with running mini cats/non-foulers as Pentalab mentioned in his post with the rear 02 sensors turned on in the tune and hope the non-foulers will do the trick in getting to pass the OBDII scan. Otherwise, the only other way that I know of is by qualifying for the state vehicle emission exemption which requires putting no more than 5000 miles per year on the vehicle in order to qualify from having to go thru the OBDII emissions test. Being that my car is not a daily driver, my vehicle qualifies under my state's vehicle emission exemption requirements. At any rate, this might an option worth looking into for those who don't use their cars as a daily driver

There's a way to get the monitors to show up unsupported. But it takes a professional to do it. They have to rewrite some of the code behind the scenes basically. I have a value file for my car that makes the catalyst and EGR show up as unsupported. But now that some machines are counting monitors I elected not to run it.



I'm still waiting to see how this goes. I took the training back in December and as of a couple weeks ago I still have full access to my emission stuff. I can turn on and off whatever I want. How long I'll keep that ability I don't know. It seems the ones that are having issues thought SCT was bluffing and didn't take the training by the dead line. I'll probably be in my software this weekend to make a couple changes. So we'll see what happens at this point.

While it sucks having to have your tuner send you an updated file, at least it can be done through email.

It's definitely good to know that folks such as yourself, Juice and Pentalab are able to provide accurate and reliable info who have first-hand knowledge and experience that know exactly what they're talking about. Needless to say, you've provided some very valuable info to say the very least

 

[boomer9999]

I live up here in New York where you can't even pass an inspection if so much as a little tear on your wiper blade. I bought my car from Michigan where the emissions laws are less. I'm supercharged and dyno tuned. The rear 02's were off and those pesky 3 monitors come up. I had to spend $600 to buy the software to literally flip one single bit in the flash to turn them back on. I see it this way...I have the power I need and also have my factory cats. New York even tracks the software version in the PCM, so your up shits crick trying to explain to the inspection station what has changed. I just tell them Ford did computer upgrade. I'm too old to do the cat swap every year.

 

[Forty61]

Well the defoulers are in, perfect fit next to each other. Zip tied sensor wires out of the way too. New tune is in, gotta get my SCT stuff set back up on my laptop and throw it on there.. will keep you guys posted!

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

I live up here in New York where you can't even pass an inspection if so much as a little tear on your wiper blade. I bought my car from Michigan where the emissions laws are less. I'm supercharged and dyno tuned. The rear 02's were off and those pesky 3 monitors come up. I had to spend $600 to buy the software to literally flip one single bit in the flash to turn them back on. I see it this way...I have the power I need and also have my factory cats. New York even tracks the software version in the PCM, so your up shits crick trying to explain to the inspection station what has changed. I just tell them Ford did computer upgrade. I'm too old to do the cat swap every year.

I'm actually very surprised that New York doesn't fail you for removal of the factory cats alone. You would think they would perform a visual inspection being as strict as they are As for having to spend $600 for software just in order to turn the rear 02 monitors back on, couldn't you just had your tuning vendor e-mail a revised tune with the rear 02 sensor and monitors turned back on? I really don't think your tuning vendor would've charged you $600 to have just the rear 02 and monitors turned on in the tune IMHO.

Well the defoulers are in, perfect fit next to each other. Zip tied sensor wires out of the way too. New tune is in, gotta get my SCT stuff set back up on my laptop and throw it on there.. will keep you guys posted!
View attachment 69104

Did you make certain that your rear 02 and catalyst monitors are turned on in the new tune? In the meantime, most definitely keep us posted with your progress regarding the non-foulers passing the OBDII scan

 

[07 Boss]

The mini cats work for the OBD scan. My sensors are currently turned on and I haven’t thrown a CEL for almost 3 years and passed 2 smogs. That wasn’t always the case. When I first put headers in I had a tune that passed without any sensors even in the car. There is one tuner that I know of that can make that possible. Not sure where he is working now though. Then I put the Whipple on there and got tuned by Shelby Motorsports. At that point I bought another H-pipe and welded in cats. I swapped the mid pipe in every year to pass my smog. Got tired of that and went with the mini cats from Big Daddies and never looked back. I’ve since recycled the cattted H-pipe. Anyways, to make a longe 10 year story short, for anyone who needs to pass the OBD smog, just go get the mini cats. Save the aggravation/hassle of swapping tunes or mid pipes or whatever and just get ‘em. It’s just the best solution. Advice from an old fart.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

The mini cats work for the OBD scan. My sensors are currently turned on and I haven’t thrown a CEL for almost 3 years and passed 2 smogs. That wasn’t always the case. When I first put headers in I had a tune that passed without any sensors even in the car. There is one tuner that I know of that can make that possible. Not sure where he is working now though. Then I put the Whipple on there and got tuned by Shelby Motorsports. At that point I bought another H-pipe and welded in cats. I swapped the mid pipe in every year to pass my smog. Got tired of that and went with the mini cats from Big Daddies and never looked back. I’ve since recycled the cattted H-pipe. Anyways, to make a longe 10 year story short, for anyone who needs to pass the OBD smog, just go get the mini cats. Save the aggravation/hassle of swapping tunes or mid pipes or whatever and just get ‘em. It’s just the best solution. Advice from an old fart.

Let's just hope it doesn't get to the point where the EPA police are going to pressure every state into doing visual inspections? if it ends up becoming a reality? then we're all going to have to swap out mid-pipes/tunes every year whether we like it or not. At any rate, from one old fart to another, the mini cats at least, for the time being, would appear to be the best solution in saving all the hassle and aggravation of swapping out mid-pipes prior to the state annual OBD emissions scan/inspection.

 

[07 Boss]

Let's just hope it doesn't get to the point where the EPA police are going to pressure every state into doing visual inspections? if it ends up becoming a reality? then we're all going to have to swap out mid-pipes/tunes every year whether we like it or not. At any rate, from one old fart to another, the mini cats at least, for the time being, would appear to be the best solution in saving all the hassle and aggravation of swapping out mid-pipes prior to the state annual OBD emissions scan/inspection.

Well we’re lucky we don’t live in California. Any modification of your exhaust including mufflers can get you a $1K fine. It is also my understanding that their new scanning machines can detect non stock tunes which is also a big no no there.

 

[1950StangJump$]

In Virginia, emission standards vary by county. In my county, there are no emissions tests . . . but they are supposed to visually ensure the cats are there during inspection. So, my high flow cats are sufficient, though I had to have the tuner turn the rear O2s off last fall because these cats would trip a check engine light.

From reading here, it sounds like I had the tune modified just in time.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

Well we’re lucky we don’t live in California. Any modification of your exhaust including mufflers can get you a $1K fine. It is also my understanding that their new scanning machines can detect non stock tunes which is also a big no no there.

Well, California may be a nice place to visit, but I sure in the hell wouldn't want to live there lol. Therefore I'll be staying put right here in PA

In Virginia, emission standards vary by county. In my county, there are no emissions tests . . . but they are supposed to visually ensure the cats are there during inspection. So, my high flow cats are sufficient, though I had to have the tuner turn the rear O2s off last fall because these cats would trip a check engine light.

From reading here, it sounds like I had the tune modified just in time.

Actually, every state is technically required to ensure the factory catalyst equipment (cats) are in place during inspection, as factory cats are required under federal law. Unfortunately, there are some inspection stations in my area that will do a visual inspection and can at their discretion fail the vehicle in question if the factory catted mid-pipe has been uninstalled. Therefore high-flow cats are not necessarily always sufficient enough. However, if you have a good working relationship with the inspection station? you can often get by with just the OBDII emissions scan. Like Virginia, emission standards also vary by county here in PA as well but unfortunately, my county does have emissions testing. The good news is if you put no more than 5000 miles per year on your vehicle? it qualifies under the state vehicle emission exemption law in which the vehicle is not required to pass the OBD emissions scan regardless of what county the vehicle happens to be registered in. Anyhow, just my $.02

 

[01yellerCobra]

Well we’re lucky we don’t live in California. Any modification of your exhaust including mufflers can get you a $1K fine. It is also my understanding that their new scanning machines can detect non stock tunes which is also a big no no there.

Basically they changed it from a fix it ticket to automatic fine. The sad part is it's still up to the cop as far was what's too loud. But from what I've researched if you're issued the ticket you can take your car to a referee station and have it checked. If it falls under the 95dB limit you can fight the ticket. I'm hoping I don't have to find out personally.

I haven't heard about the machines looking for tunes. I don't see how it would know personally. My 04 was smogged in December with a non stock tune and nothing popped up. The only thing I know is that the machines look for a certain number of monitors by year. Maybe that's how it knows if the tune isn't stock. But I have everything turned on in my tune. I got tired of playing the $300 smog game.

 

[Forty61]

Still working on this, out of curiosity I contacted Lito and had him look over my tune. He is convinced it will never pass with my current tune so when I get back to town I will be sending him the information for a proper one and go from there.

 

[skwerl]

No inspections here in FL. I remember my parents getting cars inspected when I was a kid but they quit that crap in the 70's.

Deleted the cat on my 1997 F450 7.3 Power Stroke a couple months ago. Got a decent bump in torque.
Last weekend I deleted the cat/muffler on my International 7300 DT466. That one is the size of a small water heater and weighs over 60 lbs. I used a 24" piece of pipe, a 90 degree elbow and a reducer along with some clamps. It's a 2006 so no Tier 4 crap, no sensors. Not much louder but you can definitely hear the turbo whistling.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

Still working on this, out of curiosity I contacted Lito and had him look over my tune. He is convinced it will never pass with my current tune so when I get back to town I will be sending him the information for a proper one and go from there.

With the non-foulers that your using, all you would need is for the rear 02 sensors to be turned on in the tune. Therefore I don't quite understand why your current tune would never pass the OBD emissions scan unless your current tune has the rear 02 sensors shut off in the tune itself which would also disable the rear 02 monitors as well. Anyhow, I would definitely find out from Lito if that's the reason he's convinced about your current tune? Otherwise, if it's something other than just the rear 02 sensors being turned off in the tune? then I would most definitely recommend having Lito write you a completely new tune from scratch, as he's highly recommended as one of the top tuning specialists on this site. If only I had a laptop and the background to datalog properly? Lito would be the only person writing tunes for my car without a doubt!

 

[Forty61]

With the non-foulers that your using, all you would need is for the rear 02 sensors to be turned on in the tune. Therefore I don't quite understand why your current tune would never pass the OBD emissions scan unless your current tune has the rear 02 sensors shut off in the tune itself which would also disable the rear 02 monitors as well. Anyhow, I would definitely find out from Lito if that's the reason he's convinced about your current tune? If it's something other than just the rear 02 sensors being turned off in the tune? then I would most definitely recommend having Lito write you a completely new tune from scratch, as he's highly recommended as one of the top tuning specialists on this site. If only I had a laptop and the background to datalog properly? Lito would be the only person writing tunes for my car without a doubt!

He did not give me all his reasoning since it is another tuners file. I will confirm with him further once I can get him my complete mod list.

(Post edited for clarity.)

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

He did not give me all his reasoning on exactly why it wouldn’t work but he was very to the point that no matter how much I drive it that it’s not going to pass. I will confirm with him further once I can get him my complete mod list.

The most important question you need to find out from Lito is whether or not the rear 02 sensors in your current tune are shut off? if he tells you they're turned off? you'll then have the answer to why it won't pass.

 

[Forty61]

The most important question you need to find out from Lito is whether or not the rear 02 sensors in your current tune are shut off? if he tells you they're turned off? you'll know exactly the reason why it won't pass.

I’ll confirm that for sure, I sent him my most recent file I was given that I was told had everything turned on and he was very quick to tell me it would never pass the way it was set up. I have emailed him back asking about what specifically is wrong too so I’ll see what he comes back with. Reading the reviews on here about his work and how reasonable his prices are I’ll probably just figure out getting a tune from him just for the peace of mind and the customer service.

 

[Juice]

Well, California may be a nice place to visit, but I sure in the hell wouldn't want to live there lol. Therefore I'll be staying put right here in PA



Actually, every state is technically required to ensure the factory catalyst equipment (cats) are in place during inspection, as factory cats are required under federal law. Unfortunately, there are some inspection stations in my area that will do a visual inspection and can at their discretion fail the vehicle in question if the factory catted mid-pipe has been uninstalled. Therefore high-flow cats are not necessarily always sufficient enough. However, if you have a good working relationship with the inspection station? you can often get by with just the OBDII emissions scan. Like Virginia, emission standards also vary by county here in PA as well but unfortunately, my county does have emissions testing. The good news is if you put no more than 5000 miles per year on your vehicle? it qualifies under the state vehicle emission exemption law in which the vehicle is not required to pass the OBD emissions scan regardless of what county the vehicle happens to be registered in. Anyhow, just my $.02

For PA, if you go by "the letter of the law" ALL emission inspections must pass a visual inspection where: ALL factory installed smog equipment must be present and APPEAR to be functional. Including Exempt and cars 25 years or older. (25yr &older are Visual Only)

Clearly, this is not being enforced very much. But whats even worse, some counties dont have ANY emission testing at all! Only a safety inspection.

So technically, my 91 shouldnt pass the visual without cats.

 

[Forty61]

The most important question you need to find out from Lito is whether or not the rear 02 sensors in your current tune are shut off? if he tells you they're turned off? you'll then have the answer to why it won't pass.

He simply said he won’t go into details as somebody else wrote the tune.

(Edited for clarity.)

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

For PA, if you go by "the letter of the law" ALL emission inspections must pass a visual inspection where: ALL factory installed smog equipment must be present and APPEAR to be functional. Including Exempt and cars 25 years or older. (25yr &older are Visual Only)

Clearly, this is not being enforced very much. But whats even worse, some counties dont have ANY emission testing at all! Only a safety inspection.

So technically, my 91 shouldnt pass the visual without cats.

You're absolutely 100% spot on for PA. So technically if you go by the letter of the law? you are correct about ALL emission inspections being required to also pass a visual inspection. Fortunately, for folks like ourselves, the letter of the law isn't always enforced very much and for that, I am very grateful to say the very least lol. Personally, IMHO I think the reason why the letter of the law isn't enforced very much, is due to the fact that some of the counties, especially in the rural areas don't require emissions testing at all, but only require the PA safety inspection just as you mentioned in your post. As far as I'm concerned, this doesn't make sense to me at all. The way I look at it is this, either require all counties in the Commonwealth to include emissions testing or do away with it altogether. If it were up to me? I'd say do away with emissions testing altogether, as it's nothing more than just another money-making scheme the EPA uses as their excuse for taking more of your hard earned money in taxes and nothing more lol. At any rate, when it comes to you're "91" you are once again technically right, it shouldn't pass the visual without OEM cats, just as my "06" shouldn't as well either. Anyhow that's my rant on the subject

Well he won’t give me a reason for WHY it won’t pass or what specifically is wrong. He simply said he won’t go into details and that my current tune was written by somebody who doesn’t know what they are doing. In all honesty it is getting frustrating that I can’t get a straight answer from ANYBODY on this.

I know many people have posted about how good he is but since you have personal experience and have replied to my thread would you be confident in me getting him to write a tune for me? It’s frankly not making me feel comfortable to get no answer from my current tuner or him on exactly what my problem is.

Well, I'll just say this about Lito, I do not have any personal experience with him, I only know of him by reputation on this site. Therefore if I were in your place? I would ask some of the other members on this site who do have personal experience with him and seek their feedback/advice. What I can tell you is this, regardless of how many people may say how good somebody is when it comes to tuning a vehicle, I expect to have all of my questions/concerns addressed and answered with straight forward answers before I would ever feel confident enough in forking over my hard earned money to any tuner and if for any reason they tell you they won't go into details with you when it concerns your specific issues or problems? Then my answer would be a flat out, direct NO! as I would not feel confident in paying the person in question to write a tune for my vehicle and would, therefore, end up taking my business elsewhere instead. However, this is just my opinion and mine alone. At any rate, I would suggest contacting Justin over at VMP tuning, as he's also highly regarded on this site as an excellent tuner in which I've also spoken with him on the phone and he does take the time to address your questions regarding any tuning related issues/problems you may be having. Justin btw: also offers remote tuning/data logging services as well. Anyhow, hope the info provided here has at the very least addressed some of your questions and concerns

 

[08Bullitt_0067]

Well he won’t give me a reason for WHY it won’t pass or what specifically is wrong. He simply said he won’t go into details and that my current tune was written by somebody who doesn’t know what they are doing. In all honesty it is getting frustrating that I can’t get a straight answer from ANYBODY on this.

I know many people have posted about how good he is but since you have personal experience and have replied to my thread would you be confident in me getting him to write a tune for me? It’s frankly not making me feel comfortable to get no answer from my current tuner or him on exactly what my problem is.

One of my tunes was from Lito -> passed ODBII scan with no cats. I found some tuners don't really speak openly about tunes to skate emissions tests. Maybe it has to do with it being not quite in line with state laws.

 

[lito]

Dave, I answered your questions and went thru the file you've sent, I understand you are mad that your current tuner is not solving your issues correctly but I don't have to solve those issues for him or even you if you are not my customer, I told you what we were capable to do and how the process would work and then you asked me what were the problems of that other tune from that other tuner, that is not something for me to answer.

If that makes you doubt on my work on my services, I am sorry but that would be it. I am not going to be projected someone else's problems into my work.

Again, I don't have and I won't answer questions from someone else tune and I actually regret commenting what I did already even if that was and still is true.

Best of luck on finding your solutions.

 

[Forty61]

Dave, I answered your questions and went thru the file you've sent, I understand you are mad that your current tuner is not solving your issues correctly but I don't have to solve those issues for him or even you if you are not my customer, I told you what we were capable to do and how the process would work and then you asked me what were the problems of that other tune from that other tuner, that is not something for me to answer.

If that makes you doubt on my work on my services, I am sorry but that would be it. I am not going to be projected someone else's problems into my work.

Again, I don't have and I won't answer questions from someone else tune and I actually regret commenting what I did already even if that was and still is true.

Best of luck on finding your solutions.

I appreciate you commenting on here to clarify. I mean no disrespect, it is 100% your choice to answer how you feel is best and if you don’t want to comment on another tune that’s fine. After not getting answers from an original tuner I feel it is not unwarranted to feel wary of a second not giving me any more information about what specifically needs to be corrected. Again, no disrespect to you or your work but I’m feeling a little in the dark about my own car at this point.

I will be figuring out my approach once I get back home and can actually get to the car.