S197 Mustang in SCCA Solo: STX vs STU vs ESP?

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Its on like donkey kong... Mark and I have signed up for STU class. In blatant disregard for the rules! The horror!!!!

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index....B85DE-A649-C60F-7D6E7F4DCC02C876#.UegIHG2ySZ_

(remember: this car was legal to run in STU from 2006-2011)

And as for the week of the SCCA Solo Nationals, I'll be at Miller Motorsports Park racing our hoopty in TT3 class. The SCCA and NASA seem to always run their National Championship events in the same exact week, year after year, which drives us nuts - because ideally we would be at both events, supporting our customers in both series.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Look forward to the results!

 

[white86hatch]

Its on like donkey kong... Mark and I have signed up for STU class. In blatant disregard for the rules! The horror!!!!

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index....B85DE-A649-C60F-7D6E7F4DCC02C876#.UegIHG2ySZ_

(remember: this car was legal to run in STU from 2006-2011)

And as for the week of the SCCA Solo Nationals, I'll be at Miller Motorsports Park racing our hoopty in TT3 class. The SCCA and NASA seem to always run their National Championship events in the same exact week, year after year, which drives us nuts - because ideally we would be at both events, supporting our customers in both series.

Damn. I wish my car was prepped already. I'd love to get your input on my driving and the car set up at an event in the future.

 

[Whiskey11]

Its on like donkey kong... Mark and I have signed up for STU class. In blatant disregard for the rules! The horror!!!!

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index....B85DE-A649-C60F-7D6E7F4DCC02C876#.UegIHG2ySZ_

(remember: this car was legal to run in STU from 2006-2011)

And as for the week of the SCCA Solo Nationals, I'll be at Miller Motorsports Park racing our hoopty in TT3 class. The SCCA and NASA seem to always run their National Championship events in the same exact week, year after year, which drives us nuts - because ideally we would be at both events, supporting our customers in both series.

Midwest Divisional Championship the 16th through the 18th of August? I am only partially joking!

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Saw this on rrax...

If there was a "Pony Car Only" ST class what are the chances that the class would rapidly require a relatively narrow selection of "God's Pony" pony car versions to be competitive, either the latest/greatest or an older one? Assuming current ST rules but with "wide enough" tires are the ST UD/BD and prep rules open enough to allow a very wide range years to be competitive? Older F bodies for example with 10 years of more recent Mustangs.

Seems to me that to really attract NEW competitors at both the Regional and National level a wide range of model years AND the Ford/GM battle are needed.

I don't even know if STP is feasible but does anyone think that this could work? Maderash does pretty good in his 3rd gen fbody against s197 cars in ESP, I would expect similar results on street tires. Fox cars are underpowered but make up for it in weight savings, that could be interesting as well. I consider a 4th gen fbody on par with our cars, but again a little shy on horsepower. I think a class like this could work, throw in the challenger and charger as well just so those guys have a place to go (you think a mustang is heavy?!) and we have a easy, fun class.

At the last Chicago event there were seven entries running in "R" on the esp index. My wife and I add up to 9 in "STP" and that would leave 10 in STX....at least at the last event. 3 in STC and no STS entries.

Discuss.....off to the garage to install my DL1.

 

[csamsh]

Saw this on rrax...




I don't even know if STP is feasible but does anyone think that this could work? Maderash does pretty good in his 3rd gen fbody against s197 cars in ESP, I would expect similar results on street tires. Fox cars are underpowered but make up for it in weight savings, that could be interesting as well. I consider a 4th gen fbody on par with our cars, but again a little shy on horsepower. I think a class like this could work, throw in the challenger and charger as well just so those guys have a place to go (you think a mustang is heavy?!) and we have a easy, fun class.

At the last Chicago event there were seven entries running in "R" on the esp index. My wife and I add up to 9 in "STP" and that would leave 10 in STX....at least at the last event. 3 in STC and no STS entries.

Discuss.....off to the garage to install my DL1.

Yeah I think it would work...

-Any front engine V8, RWD sedan or 2+2 w/displacement at least 4.6L. Let the ZL1's and GT500's in...they're heavy and can't use the power anyway.
-315 street tires
-any rear suspension links/brackets/diff covers/watt's links legal for SRA cars
-Allow heads/cams/intake manifolds- this would make this class A TON more open to most of the pony car crowd. That's a long shot but it would make the class open to to Foxbodies and 3rd gens. The newer cars with power mods would overpower a 315 street tire anyway, so who cares?
-allow driveshaft swaps, may not add a carbon shaft if the stock one is steel. this is another pretty common mod
-Have a minimum weight to prevent a "Madarash on street tires" scenario if motor stuff is legal, maybe 3300lbs w/o driver? (I have no idea what a Foxbody or third gen weighs...) Difficult to enforce? Not necessary given that we can't strip the interior?
-and, all the rest of what we currently have in ST

SO, this would be all Mustangs, Camaros, GTO's, Firebirds/Trans Ams, Chargers, Challengers, G8's, AMG's, V8 infinitis, etc.

The class would be called STBAMF

Criticize, add, subtract as you see fit. Isn't it fun to speculate?

 

[Conekiller]

I'd be all for keeping current st rule set (diff cover change for watts link included) with adding a provision for sra cars getting lca relocation brackets on the axle end. I don't really think we need to allow heads/cams outside of up/back date allowances, while nice, power isn't the end all in autox as mustangs have proven with failed stx attempts. Throw in the stu wheel rules (unlimited) with a 315 tire width limit for fun and see what happens.

 

[csamsh]

I'd be all for keeping current st rule set (diff cover change for watts link included) with adding a provision for sra cars getting lca relocation brackets on the axle end. I don't really think we need to allow heads/cams outside of up/back date allowances, while nice, power isn't the end all in autox as mustangs have proven with failed stx attempts. Throw in the stu wheel rules (unlimited) with a 315 tire width limit for fun and see what happens.

yeah the only reason the h/c/i rules would be there is as a recruiting tool. I don't think it would actually help the cars either. Probably not in the "bolt-on" class philosophy anyway...unless it's an LS1, in which case, a turbo, head-cam car with a 200 shot is "bolt-ons-only"

 

[Conekiller]

While allowing that would allow more cars at the local level for casual competitors, it would make the cost to compete nationally rise significantly.

 

[csamsh]

While allowing that would allow more cars at the local level for casual competitors, it would make the cost to compete nationally rise significantly.

hmm, very true

 

[Norm Peterson]

Cost of competing vs who you're trying to attract.

Quite a few PT builds are going to EFI, which at the very least implies a manifold change. Heads and cam changes are nothing special in that world, particularly if your build starts with a car produced between about 1973 and maybe the mid-1990's. That's if you don't simply swap the entire powertrain out.


Norm

 

[JesseW.]

I still think they should have a pro-touring class. 3200lbs minimum weight, rear wheel drive, 200TW tires, no altered fenders, SM rules otherwise. would be the most interesting class (and an I class for me!, lol)

 

[Sky Render]

While allowing that would allow more cars at the local level for casual competitors, it would make the cost to compete nationally rise significantly.

You act as though it isn't already expensive. Very few people have the resources to compete nationally.

Sent from my toilet using Tapatalk

 

[Conekiller]

Well aware how expensive it is just under the current stx rules. If cost is the primary reason for people not competing nationally then adding what could be double the costs to full class prep won't help any.

 

[Whiskey11]

Well aware how expensive it is just under the current stx rules. If cost is the primary reason for people not competing nationally then adding what could be double the costs to full class prep won't help any.

I'm not sure his comment was aimed at class prep so much as it was the travel and registration costs. That said, most national tour stops are spread out to minimize travel. No reason you couldn't go to one. If you are from the South, there are a ton of events!

 

[Norm Peterson]

Well aware how expensive it is just under the current stx rules. If cost is the primary reason for people not competing nationally then adding what could be double the costs to full class prep won't help any.

Unless you can't do the mechanical work yourself, I don't see double here to do H/C/I even if you're only looking at parts cost. Certainly not when your national level budget would be including at least two sets of dry tires, one set of wets, and $XXXX on dampers, where none of the "X's" are 1's and possibly not even 2's.


Norm

 

[Conekiller]

Perhaps I'm over estimating the costs for custom top end engine work and not up to date on current pointy end national prep for ST classes. That's why I like forums though, great source of learning from those who have more experience than me.

 

[csamsh]

Perhaps I'm over estimating the costs for custom top end engine work and not up to date on current pointy end national prep for ST classes. That's why I like forums though, great source of learning from those who have more experience than me.

I think it can probably be as expensive as you want it to be. But, given that ST is on street tires, would you actually be able to use the extra power you'd get from, for example, camming an LS3 in a fifth gen Camaro on 285 street tires? I personally would be skeptical, but I could be wrong. People who have competitive nationals budgets wouldn't care, I don't think, and would go ahead and write the check. They're probably showing up with $30k tow rigs (conjecture) and three sets of wheels (also conjecture) anyway, and the cost of doing a little head work/tuning wouldn't be that huge of a percentage increase.

On the other hand, allowing headwork would make Pre-1998 pony cars potentially competitive and fun at a regional level, which is really the "core" of Solo 2. Without the regional stuff there wouldn't be much of an SCCA as far as Joe Public grassroots is concerned. There are a TON of lightly built 5.0L Foxbodies out there, and they would probably come out to play if they knew they could have competitive fun on street tires once they get some reasonable good shocks and tires.

 

[Conekiller]

The extra power would make the older cars more fun, no argument on that. I've got nothing against making cars fun to drive either, or I wouldn't be into autox. I imagine with the way SCCA writes rules though half of the ST rules section would just be this one class with all those allowed mods, lol.

Edit: or on second thought they could word it along the lines of "200tread wear street tires, everything else run what ya brung"

 

[csamsh]

The extra power would make the older cars more fun, no argument on that. I've got nothing against making cars fun to drive either, or I wouldn't be into autox. I imagine with the way SCCA writes rules though half of the ST rules section would just be this one class with all those allowed mods, lol.

Edit: or on second thought they could word it along the lines of "200tread wear street tires, everything else run what ya brung"

Ha, yeah you're probably right...got to remember who we're dealing with here.