Staggered or square stance..

[redfirepearlgt]

This is my 13 on an 18" staggered setup 285's rear and 235's front.

This is my current 14 on a 20" staggered setup 305's rear and 255's front

The AR Razors have a noticeable lip difference front to rear.
The KMC districts on the white car have a less concave front to rear appearance.

It's all what you prefer. As far as price a set of 275 40 18's will run $753.00 Vs. a staggered setup 285/40/18 Rear and 235/50/18 Front for $799 as pricing on Discounttiredirect.com's website currently with no promotions. You save $46 bucks on a squared up setup.

Hope this helps you out. I'm at work and it's slow so I took the time to look up Nitto 555G2 pricing. Made the time go faster.

 

[Thenorm]

305's in rear is very sexy.. but cost is crazy.
I do enjoy taking it to the track on
occassion but its mainly my weekend car. 275 all around makes sense cost wise.

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if you like to track or go around corners. square for sure. Also as wide as you can fit.

if you are big into drag racing or stoplight, stagger away.

heres 285 on 19x9 sqaure on a stock '14 GT track pack

 

[ox white]

I wonder why Ford went with a staggered setup on the Boss 302 LS? That's definitely a track car, not a drag car. Running the same setup-19x10 rear with 285s and 19x9 front with 255s and very satisfied with it, though I am tempted to go 19x10 square with 285s all around.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Unless you're running skinnies up front for drag racing or have the rear tubbed to run something crazy like 345s back there, I see zero benefits to a staggered setup.

Agreed, at least for cars with normally aspirated V8 power and lower. For bigger-powered cars, a little extra rear tire does buy a little margin against a too-eager right foot. But "a little margin" here certainly does not imply any guarantees, not by any stretch of the imagination.

From a handling perspective, the S197 chassis needs all the front tire it can get.

And on wheels as wide as you can make the combination fit with, closer to "max-recommended" being better than closer to "min-recommended".

There's even some cornering & handling advantages to running tires that are shorter than 27".

FWIW, I've run 255/45-18's on 18x9.5 GT500 wheels for street, auto-X, and my initial big-track outings.

Those wheels now have 265/40's on them and are expected to only see street duty (but I'd consider tracking them for a session or two if I corded a track tire and couldn't get a replacement track-size tire in time).

The "track set", which sees a fair amount of street miles, is 285/35's on 18x11's all around. Strut clearance is truly minimal, under 1/16", and you maybe have to look at having a little "poke" as hinting at the car's seriousness of purpose. Turn-in and steering precision are both noticeably improved over the 265/40 setup above.

Norm

 

[Sky Render]

I wonder why Ford went with a staggered setup on the Boss 302 LS? That's definitely a track car, not a drag car. Running the same setup-19x10 rear with 285s and 19x9 front with 255s and very satisfied with it, though I am tempted to go 19x10 square with 285s all around.

They fitted a stiffer rear bar (increase oversteer) and put wider tires on the rear (decrease oversteer) so you can apply power out of corners sooner. The Laguna also had different dampers and springs. It was tuned to run a staggered setup.

See, now we're getting more advanced into handling setups.

Yes, you can make a staggered setup handle REALLY WELL if you have supporting mods, a tuneable suspension, and are a good driver (especially with throttle control). Vorshlag's red S197 ran a staggered setup. But even then, Terry Fair wanted more front tire.

Most people aren't Terry Fair or backed by a world-class speed shop, though. Stick with a square setup unless you life your life a quarter mile at a time. Just my $0.02

 

[Norm Peterson]

I wonder why Ford went with a staggered setup on the Boss 302 LS? That's definitely a track car, not a drag car.

Ford is obliged to consider a wider range of driver skill, meaning people with the financial wherewithal to buy a car that they really aren't ready to be driving anywhere near as hard as it could be driven. So they build in some limit understeer, in the Boss case by allowing the front tires to 'saturate' somewhat sooner than the rear tires. Kind of like taking 'stagger' as an OE crutch for big power down to the lower-power levels. As an aside, the very notion of tire stagger and/or wheel width stagger is actively sought by the appearance crowd for the visual reason alone.

Running the same setup-19x10 rear with 285s and 19x9 front with 255s and very satisfied with it

Understeer is stable and rarely causes any surprises, which makes it comfortable for most drivers. Satisfying for any given driver, even, if the limits before the front tires give up are high enough to cover every situation that he actively plans on encountering (and most of the ones that he doesn't).


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Shopping for wheels.
I still have stock 245' s

I m thinking 255/285 or 275/275

Starting with a car that had not been lowered by any more than about 3/4", I'd put 265/40's on 18x10's all around. Otherwise 275/40's on 10's all around. For 19x10's, make that 275/35's.


Norm

 

[Johnstone]

Starting with a car that had not been lowered by any more than about 3/4", I'd put 265/40's on 18x10's all around. Otherwise 275/40's on 10's all around. For 19x10's, make that 275/35's.


Norm

Thanks for the advice[emoji106]

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[ox white]

They fitted a stiffer rear bar (increase oversteer) and put wider tires on the rear (decrease oversteer) so you can apply power out of corners sooner. The Laguna also had different dampers and springs. It was tuned to run a staggered setup.

Yes, well aware of that. I'm using the same rear bar and non-stock springs and dampers.

Understeer is stable and rarely causes any surprises, which makes it comfortable for most drivers. Satisfying for any given driver, even, if the limits before the front tires give up are high enough to cover every situation that he actively plans on encountering (and most of the ones that he doesn't).

Well aware of that also, but wtf...thanks for the tips guys.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Mounting a 275 series (NT555) tire on the 9" wheel was much easier than I expected. And I've mounted some tires in my life! I have a harder time mounting/dismounting 245/45/17's on 9" wheels. (fox body) Handling wise, my only issue with the 275's is coming to a stop on a road that has developed ruts at stop signs and lights. The front end can wander a bit. I agree though, the math says 9" wheel is not the ideal size for a 275 tire. In this case, I have to disagree with the "math".

You probably find it acceptable because a 275 on 9" isn't as stiff where cornering is concerned, and if you were to push your car toward its limits it would break away more gradually and progressively (and at a lower speed) than a setup that would give up the ghost more abruptly.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Well aware of that also, but wtf...thanks for the tips guys.

To add just a little more, I'm not at all convinced that crutching an intentionally understeerish tire & wheel combination with suspension tuning that's relatively oversteerish is the best way to go in all cases. I think I'd rather keep them both closer to neutral with only a small bias toward understeer on each and in the overall vehicle sense. Small being less than OE. Then again, I'd only have to tune for one preference (mine). Not tens of thousands of different ones.


It's not always possible to answer a post in the middle of the thread without covering ground that some of the other participants are already familiar with. Or knowing the extent of a new member's knowledge/experience for that matter.


Norm

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

So for those running 285/30/20's on 9.5-10 inch wheels in a square setup.. How are you able to avoid rub issues in the front ? I run 275/35/20's on 9.5" wheels square with 45mm offset and just barely have enough height clearance up front.. My front suspension is also lowered by approx 1.3 -1.4 inches and approx 1.5 inches lower (rear) with Eibach pro springs and Koni sport yellow struts/shocks

 

[fourdegrees11]

So for those running 285/30/20's on 9.5-10 inch wheels in a square setup.. How are you able to avoid rub issues in the front ? I run 275/35/20's on 9.5" wheels square with 45mm offset and just barely have enough height clearance up front.. My front suspension is also lowered by approx 1.3 -1.4 inches and approx 1.5 inches lower (rear) with Eibach pro springs and Koni sport yellow struts/shocks

All I can think is that you're comparing a much taller 35 sidewall on your current tires. 285/3020 is 26.7", where the 275/35r20 is 27.6".

My 19x10 front wheels are 40mm, I have 285/35 tires on them, and lowered 1.5" with Ford k-springs up front (2" sportlines on the rear now). I've never rubbed a tire. 285/35r19 is 26.9"

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

All I can think is that you're comparing a much taller 35 sidewall on your current tires. 285/3020 is 26.7", where the 275/35r20 is 27.6".

My 19x10 front wheels are 40mm, I have 285/35 tires on them, and lowered 1.5" with Ford k-springs up front (2" sportlines on the rear now). I've never rubbed a tire. 285/35r19 is 26.9"

I totally agree about 35 series tires having approx an inch taller sidewall over 30's.. Reason I went with 275/35/20's was for the taller sidewall to provide less harshness and smoother ride quality.. Also Steeda assured me prior to purchasing their 20x9.5" Spyder wheels, they use Nitto G2's in 275/35/20 for their Steeda Q series Mustangs that clear both front and rear sections with no issues despite being 27.6 inches in height.. I also considered 285/30/20's in a square setup, but was concerned that ride comfort would suffer running tires with shorter sidewalls.. So in the end, I went by Steeda's recommendation and settled for the 275/35/20 Nitto G2's.. Needless to say, after 2 years I haven't encountered any height clearance issues at all, but as previously mentioned they provide just barely enough height clearance up front while leaving very little room to spare.. At any rate, I probably would've been better off with 275/40/19's or perhaps 275/45/18's that offer both a taller sidewall and better height clearance over 275/35/20's

 

[luckyloke]

I love the way staggered setups look. Mine weren't available in the size I wanted. Square setup has some advantages though like tire rotation and if you ever have a blow out you can swap a front to the rear. I did something a little different. 255s on the front and 275s on 19x10s all around.

what spring set up are you running?

All I can think is that you're comparing a much taller 35 sidewall on your current tires. 285/3020 is 26.7", where the 275/35r20 is 27.6".

My 19x10 front wheels are 40mm, I have 285/35 tires on them, and lowered 1.5" with Ford k-springs up front (2" sportlines on the rear now). I've never rubbed a tire. 285/35r19 is 26.9"

So you are running a 1.5 Ford spring in the front and a Eibach in the rear? I have been looking for info everywhere on this. I have the SR 1.5in spring but the rear still is too high and I was looking at maybe running a sportline rear spring. I just didnt wanna F up the handling doing that.

 

[fourdegrees11]

So you are running a 1.5 Ford spring in the front and a Eibach in the rear? I have been looking for info everywhere on this. I have the SR 1.5in spring but the rear still is too high and I was looking at maybe running a sportline rear spring. I just didnt wanna F up the handling doing that.

Yes that's what I'm doing. There was a guy selling just the rear springs for like $70 shipped on ACMR so I snagged them. I guess they're not the greatest for drag racing, so people with sportlines may replace the rears. The only negative I have about the swap is I scrape my exhaust a lot more now. Ride quality and handling dont feel any different, but I have adjustable shocks/struts

 

[07 Boss]

Extreme stagger gonna give you that old street rodder look. 27" tall up front and 29" tall in the rear gives it quite a bit of rake. I think I even had stock rear springs in the rear with ProKits up front.

 

[luckyloke]

Yes that's what I'm doing. There was a guy selling just the rear springs for like $70 shipped on ACMR so I snagged them. I guess they're not the greatest for drag racing, so people with sportlines may replace the rears. The only negative I have about the swap is I scrape my exhaust a lot more now. Ride quality and handling dont feel any different, but I have adjustable shocks/struts

Ok good looking out. I just found a set on FB swap page for the rears... imma grab them up. They are coming off a 2011 gt500 but that shouldnt be an issue with the rear right? I know up front the strut mounts are different but thats all I have found info wise.

 

[fourdegrees11]

Ok good looking out. I just found a set on FB swap page for the rears... imma grab them up. They are coming off a 2011 gt500 but that shouldnt be an issue with the rear right? I know up front the strut mounts are different but thats all I have found info wise.

I believe that's correct but I'm not 100% sure

 

[702GT]

There's way more to it than just assuming wider is better. Tire's have been talked about to death on this forum, a good search should yield a bunch of tech on tires per application.

OP, if you want to stagger your setup purely for looks, good on you. It does look sharp. But don't do it under the assumption that there's some kind of performance benefit to it, there isn't. Not on the street, running street compounds, anyway. Staggered setups on a drag strip, running a drag compound in the rear and bias-ply skinny up front, has performance advantages. Running a 255 Summer tire up front and a 285 Summer tire in rear, does not have the same performance benefit. Keep in mind as well, wider tires increase your risk of hydro-plane in wet conditions. If you're running a Drag Radial 285 in the rear, and a 255 Summer tire up front, the performance benefit is in the tire compound, not the fact that it's wider. The aspect ratio gods must be appeased in order to obtain maximum forward traction. A super wide tire with short sidewall will get shit on by an aspect ratio kept in balance. Look at all the the race car setups at the drag strip, try to find someone doing well running a low-profile super-wide drag tire. Fact is, even the pro drag cars obey the aspect ratio rules. There tires are super wide, and super tall, hence all the sidewall wrinkle at launch. Sidewall wrinkle is much sexier than low-profile staggered tire shredders. That may just be my opinion.

Food for thought. Here's some science for ya http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae200.cfm. Think about the science before slapping on whatever looks good, unless you're down for show-car status.