Whiteline Watts Link Failure

[5.0_SD]

The question should be is why isn't Alex making these? Alex, you could make some coin off your design and amazing fabrication skills. I'm willing to bet that there would be many members of this forum that would by a whole rear suspension system from you...hell while your at it, might as well do it for the whole front suspension as well. I'm in if you do it.

 

[Department Of Boost]

The question should be is why isn't Alex making these? Alex, you could make some coin off your design and amazing fabrication skills. I'm willing to bet that there would be many members of this forum that would by a whole rear suspension system from you...hell while your at it, might as well do it for the whole front suspension as well. I'm in if you do it.

Alex doesn't do "production". Just one offs, prototypes, R&D stuff.

We talked about doing a Watts link based on the one in the pictures but it would be priced out of the market. The billet cover is BIG money in just materials.

It's the same thing with billet front control arms. We figured out a sweeeeeet design. But no one could afford them.

 

[NoTicket]

Well, as an update for the actual problem. Whiteline overnighted replacement parts. They arrived today.

I emailed them Sunday, they responded Monday morning. Overnighted them Tuesday and they arrived Wednesday.

Not bad especially considering Monday was Veterans day.

 

[fordracing]

Well, as an update for the actual problem. Whiteline overnighted replacement parts. They arrived today.

I emailed them Sunday, they responded Monday morning. Overnighted them Tuesday and they arrived Wednesday.

Not bad especially considering Monday was Veterans day.

That's actually impressive

Good to hear they took care of it

 

[sheizasosay]

Alex doesn't do "production". Just one offs, prototypes, R&D stuff.

We talked about doing a Watts link based on the one in the pictures but it would be priced out of the market. The billet cover is BIG money in just materials.

It's the same thing with billet front control arms. We figured out a sweeeeeet design. But no one could afford them.

Are you or Alex running that front control arm on your car?

 

[5.0_SD]

Alex doesn't do "production". Just one offs, prototypes, R&D stuff.

We talked about doing a Watts link based on the one in the pictures but it would be priced out of the market. The billet cover is BIG money in just materials.

It's the same thing with billet front control arms. We figured out a sweeeeeet design. But no one could afford them.

Damn that's a shame, those are some awesome looking pieces...I wonder if there was some way to bring the costs down some, or, do a pricing of what it costs to do those pieces now, add some profit margin to make it worthwhile for Alex to do, then throw it out to the community here and see if anyone would be willing to order; have people pre-pay the order, then Alex can make the pieces for individual buyers. I am very curious to what the cost would be...you never know, people here might pay the extra coin to get a beyond high quality, well engineered, suspension system.

 

[Roadracer350]

The material alone would prolly be to expensive for most. Then you factor in machining, anodizing, design time etc that piece would prolly be well north of 1500-2G. Bad ass and awesome piece but prolly way to expensive for most.

 

[Roadracer350]

Well, as an update for the actual problem. Whiteline overnighted replacement parts. They arrived today.

I emailed them Sunday, they responded Monday morning. Overnighted them Tuesday and they arrived Wednesday.

Not bad especially considering Monday was Veterans day.

Told you they would take care of you!

 

[NoTicket]

Despite their excellent customer service I do not think I would ever recommend this product to anybody in the future. Frankly, the design of the propeller, the way the threaded pivots are welded in, does not give me any confidence in the unit now.

The Cortex system (and probably Griggs) use a bolt and nut, and even that gives me more confidence than the pivots in this case. And next August, when the 1 year warranty on this particular aspect of the Watts link has expired, I will not be able to get a replacement if it snaps again.

I guess I will just hope for the best.

 

[Roadracer350]

Honestly I have only heard of these failures out of ALL the units they have sold. Anyone can have a bad weld but it is all in how they handle it. Whiteline stepped up and fixed it. I have the same unit and I would recommend it to anyone. Could it be made better? Yea anything an everything could! Look at the beatings Terry puts on his Whiteline equipped car an no problems. It's just a fluke deal.

 

[NoTicket]

Maybe it is a fluke. Maybe it is just a design flaw. Maybe Terry just didn't publicize it if his failed. We have no idea how many cars are running these units, and we have no idea how many have failed.

Granted I may feel differently about it if the unit makes it through the next year of track days and whatever else I put it through.

I suppose right now I am just burned since it just happened. But since winter is coming, I doubt I will get many opportunities to beat on it until next year.

 

[fordracing]

NoTicket;

Very valid feeling that way, I would feel the same as well.

If it were (I'm OCD that way) me I would probably try to reinforce it, just for some piece of mind.

 

[Wicked GT]

Spent some time with the Whiteline group while at SEMA (owner down to techs). They were very forthcoming about the issues with the upper control arm and the issues it caused. We discussed the Watts Link and no one referenced any issues. I can't say you are the only one with the issue but it certainly is not a widespread issue. Glad to hear they took care of you quickly, would have been surprised if they didn't get it taken care of quickly. They are a good group of people.

 

[Roadracer350]

Before I bought mine I talked to a couple dealers and some people running them and no one has ever had a problem with them. I just checked the price for the piece of billet 4140 for remaking the prop and the 7056 alum for making it double sheer... It's not cheap. I don't think it will be cost effective to try and make these and market them. After the material (with volume discount) machining, tooling etc it's going to be well north of 5-600. Maybe one offs like 908SS. I think I may make myself one but not right now it's to expensive.

 

[NoTicket]

If it were (I'm OCD that way) me I would probably try to reinforce it, just for some piece of mind.

I want to machine a metal plate that is a few mm thick that slides down over the center pivot. Basically it would be shaped exactly like the propeller. Instead of using the retaining washers you would put this plate over the pivots and put the bolts through it adding a second shear point for the pivots.

I just don't know how to go about getting it made.

Maybe I should tell Whiteline about this idea...

 

[Roadracer350]

Send me a drawing with dimensions and I may have some scrap laying around to make something up for you.

 

[fordracing]

I want to machine a metal plate that is a few mm thick that slides down over the center pivot. Basically it would be shaped exactly like the propeller. Instead of using the retaining washers you would put this plate over the pivots and put the bolts through it adding a second shear point for the pivots.

I just don't know how to go about getting it made.

Maybe I should tell Whiteline about this idea...

Trace out that propellor on some paper get some accurate measurements and go to just about any machine shop (Although RoadRacer350 offered to help you out!!!).
From looking at the pictures (If I'm understanding the layout correctly) the only real issues would be figuring out how thick you could go.

I would think that cost wouldn't be much, and the extra piece of mind would be well worth it. But hey that's jmho.

If you really wanted to go over the top, How I would do this after looking at their web site.
I would replace the rubber ends on both rods with heim joints, then I would make a new propellor with double bearings that bolt to the pumpkin (center) and a double plate for each side of the heim joints.
That would give you double shear and have a bearing pivot. (and probably be thinner than what you have now) The only hard part would be finding a bearing(s) that had the correct diameters (inner and outer).

 

[Department Of Boost]

Are you or Alex running that front control arm on your car?

Nope. Never built any. It would be too expensive for us to justify doing it for ourselves even. The materials would be astronomical!

Damn that's a shame, those are some awesome looking pieces...I wonder if there was some way to bring the costs down some, or, do a pricing of what it costs to do those pieces now, add some profit margin to make it worthwhile for Alex to do, then throw it out to the community here and see if anyone would be willing to order; have people pre-pay the order, then Alex can make the pieces for individual buyers. I am very curious to what the cost would be...you never know, people here might pay the extra coin to get a beyond high quality, well engineered, suspension system.

For starters Alex wouldn't do any production units, for just about any kind of money. We have a CNC guy who does all of our production stuff.

To make it worth the design time (they would still need to be "drawn"), ramping up for a run, time to deal with customers/payment, time in boxing them up, time writing instructions, time dealing with getting all the hardware, etc, etc, etc they would be uber expensive. I'm pulling this out of my ass here but I'm guessing if they were going into long term/high unit count production I could price them at $1500. For a short run closer to $2000.

We have a TON of stuff in the works right now that will make us money (that is the final goal after all). I can't slow any of that down to do something that will require more work, makes less money and may be a one time only kinda deal. Don't get me wrong, I would love to offer them. It's just not good business. And I doubt 20 people would sign on.

Plus I don't really want to be responsible for suspension parts.

 

[Department Of Boost]

(Although RoadRacer350 offered to help you out!!!).

HaHaHa, he talks a big game, but has he ever actually every produced and sold anything? I wouldn’t hold my breath.

 

[fordracing]

HaHaHa, he talks a big game, but has he ever actually every produced and sold anything? I wouldn’t hold my breath.

I can't speak to that, I don't have any personal experience talking or dealing with him.