Learning to make fast go fast!

[05stroker]

It is pointing toward fluke, I will agree. Yes, if the valves got ground there would be less preload on the springs and they would be less likely to coil bind. On the flip side if you take enough preload off of them they won't have anough seat pressure and the valves will bounce. That bounce can break a spring. All theory of course.

If it were me, and you have time for this, I would check the installed height on all of the springs to make sure they are equal. Then I would pull the springs and check them open and closed to make sure that they are doing what they are supposed to. Could be a fluke, could be a setup issue. Could be lots of things. You will eliminate a ton of possibilities if yo check them.

I think I will measure the installed height and measure two exhaust springs and two intake springs and check the spring rate.

 

[05stroker]

So, with the current unknowns on my startup next time, do I keep the Plasma Moly rings is and let them finish seating or install the new SS rings and hope all is well on startup?

To be honest I am leaning towards the moly to be sure they seat. I can always freshen up with the SS and a known good tune for the setup next fall if needed.

 

[Department Of Boost]

So, with the current unknowns on my startup next time, do I keep the Plasma Moly rings is and let them finish seating or install the new SS rings and hope all is well on startup?

To be honest I am leaning towards the moly to be sure they seat. I can always freshen up with the SS and a known good tune for the setup next fall if needed.

SS rings have always freaked me out a little for this reason. What do you do if it doesn't run right and you can seat them right away????

SS rings don't seem very scary if the motor is going on a motor dyno. Little different when it's an entire car.

 

[05stroker]

SS rings have always freaked me out a little for this reason. What do you do if it doesn't run right and you can seat them right away????

SS rings don't seem very scary if the motor is going on a motor dyno. Little different when it's an entire car.

Yea, I think I am going to go with my machinist recommendation and my gut and go with the moly ring I have and save the new AP rings for another day.

 

[go302]

I was freaked out installing stainless rings in mine but it turned out well.

 

[05stroker]

I was freaked out installing stainless rings in mine but it turned out well.

I can always swap them later if needed after all is well and the tune is spot on and the setup is solid. I have no issue with removing a perfectly good motor to re ring it next fall.

 

[go302]

Yea that was what freaked me out was it was a new motor and I was going to have to start with an entirely new tune. Was really worried I would wash the cylinders with fuel and fuck them up. With what you're describing it'll be cake if it comes to it.

 

[jodadejss06gt]

I really really think that is what happened the first time around with my engine. The setup was soo new and soo many varribles that the rings got washed and jacked up the cylinders. This time I'm not sure if the rings have fully seated or are ever going to. I've got good compression numbers but one of the cylinders is over 20% leak.

Aren't the moly rings going to limit you power wise?

 

[05stroker]

Aren't the moly rings going to limit you power wise?

I ran moly rings all last year and they look fine when I took them out carrand 9.30s.

 

[jodadejss06gt]

Well good luck with the current setup....hoping I can get my car back soon. Sucks that its having this much issue with soo much $ down the drain.

 

[go302]

If you're using e85 or meth on your big boy tune I think the moly rings are ok.

 

[05stroker]

Talked to Comp, they said its just one of those things that happens when running this aggressive of a cam doing as hard as I was. Lol

They also said the 26125-24 is the only spring they have that is recomended for my application.

So now what to use, Comps again or PAC?

 

[Department Of Boost]

So now what to use, Comps again or PAC?

Meh, springs break sometimes in "race cars". Everything has a duty cycle. Ever watch the Drag Week guys run? They are changing springs all the time. It's crazy.

Maybe you just found the duty limit of the weaker spring in the system. 80 runs is really quite a lot.

If it were me I would pull them all and check them. If some are sacking out replace them. I highly doubt that the PAC spring is really any better than the Comp one. The only way to get springs that are better than the mass produced stuff (they are all pretty much done the same way) is to get some crazy high dollar stuff. And most of the time those have a shorter duty cycle.

 

[crownaviation]

Talked to Comp, they said its just one of those things that happens when running this aggressive of a cam doing as hard as I was. Lol

They also said the 26125-24 is the only spring they have that is recomended for my application.

So now what to use, Comps again or PAC?

Any signs of rubbing the side if the casings or cam towers? Had to clearance mine and was a pita

I highly recommend checking installed height, open/closed seat pressure and stack height. Would you be surprised that they do not actually check them after manufacturing? Mine were not as advertised. Michael at l&m had me verify before he profiled my custom cams. Actually he would not build them until I did.

Carefully in selecting springs. I ended up with Manley (not by choice). I had to then but titanium retainers as the oem were too small.

note.. I have not run this combo yet either

 

[05stroker]

Meh, springs break sometimes in "race cars". Everything has a duty cycle. Ever watch the Drag Week guys run? They are changing springs all the time. It's crazy.

Maybe you just found the duty limit of the weaker spring in the system. 80 runs is really quite a lot.

If it were me I would pull them all and check them. If some are sacking out replace them. I highly doubt that the PAC spring is really any better than the Comp one. The only way to get springs that are better than the mass produced stuff (they are all pretty much done the same way) is to get some crazy high dollar stuff. And most of the time those have a shorter duty cycle.

I went ahead and just ordered another set of the Comp 26125 springs 2nd day air so I will still get the heads done on Fri and be ready to assemble this weekend. I will save the ones I have now for another day and check the spring rates and if all is well use them on another motor.

Any signs of rubbing the side if the casings or cam towers? Had to clearance mine and was a pita

No, I checked all that yesterday.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I went ahead and just ordered another set of the Comp 26125 springs 2nd day air so I will still get the heads done on Fri and be ready to assemble this weekend. I will save the ones I have now for another day and check the spring rates and if all is well use them on another motor.

Test the new ones.

 

[travelers]

Talked to Comp, they said its just one of those things that happens when running this aggressive of a cam doing as hard as I was. Lol

They also said the 26125-24 is the only spring they have that is recomended for my application.

So now what to use, Comps again or PAC?

We use the PAC springs and if we brake one (intake)we change the intakes which are the ones that usually brake because of the cam profile. I agree measure both heights and make sure the spring pressure is the same. At 9600 we change at around 30 runs either way.

 

[crownaviation]

Wow ^^ testament to rpm. I plan on changing mine every season at 7k rpm with these cams.

Billy you good? need anything or any help?

 

[05stroker]

Billy you good? need anything or any help?

No. just need to reassemble everything and let it eat... Just one of those things I guess! Thanks.

 

[05stroker]

Heads are at home with the new Comp 26125 springs, I had my son pick them up today. All of the old springs where tested and fell is spec I am told. Just didn't want to wait or chance it. I will buy a single spring and save them for another build. I also decided to go ahead and use the new steel rings and save these for another build.

Since I am working in Dallas, and working tomorrow, I will have to wait to assemble on Sunday. Should be fast though since I already know where the cams need to be set at and just have to assemble. The block is ready, just needs a wash it and oil the cylinders on Sunday morning. Should actually be better for the motor that I am going to assemble and close the long block in the same day. Less chance for debris to get to the parts. I plan to torque the heads in three stages and the then torque them three times backing each nut off 1/4 turn and re torqueing. Then again after the first full warm up. If I get to feeling frisky I may set it in the bay as well.