2008 ROUSH Stage 3 Build...Take III

[thump_rrr]

I just opened up my brand new FRPP timing kit and placed the timing gear on my JDM 302E shortblock which is also brand new.
I get 0.010" of play measured with a dial indicator so my guess is you're just being paranoid.
Not that I blame you having to go through this for the 3rd time.

http://s24.photobucket.com/user/Thu...B7-8DB6-4F00DA8FE1F4_zps7hyf6xm8.mp4.html?o=0

 

[AutoXRacer]

Wow, so thats normal? What the??

So I guess once you torque the balancer, the final torque of the bolt locks everything in place?

Thank you Thump, this puts me at ease...a little... I can proceed with the build.
I will slap my dial indicator on there and see if I get the same results.

I am going to use the stock gears instead of the TFS adjustable ones. I will mark the R4 reference points from the TFS gears onto my OEM stock gear. I still believe the stock gear is a lot stronger than the TFS. Something about having multiple parts vs one solid chunk. lol

TFS gears are needed to degree cams, but if you cams are equal, meaning once you degree them you find that both sides are equal, you don't really need the TFS gears...just use the stock one with the TFS reference marks.

The TFS become critical to use when you have slight differences between banks and have to retard one back more than the other to balance the intake center line.

Thanks again guys!! I'll post up a short clip of the dial indicator results.

That does not look right to me. I see that the gear has multiple key ways. Does it do that in in every key way?

yep does it in every key way...
Leads me to think the woodruff key is wearing out or wore out slightly. How many miles does your crank have Thump?
Are there replacement woodruff keys for these kellog cranks?

 

[thump_rrr]

Wow, so thats normal? What the??

So I guess once you torque the balancer, the final torque of the bolt locks everything in place?

Thank you Thump, this puts me at ease...a little... I can proceed with the build.
I will slap my dial indicator on there and see if I get the same results.

I am going to use the stock gears instead of the TFS adjustable ones. I will mark the R4 reference points from the TFS gears onto my OEM stock gear. I still believe the stock gear is a lot stronger than the TFS. Something about having multiple parts vs one solid chunk. lol

TFS gears are needed to degree cams, but if you cams are equal, meaning once you degree them you find that both sides are equal, you don't really need the TFS gears...just use the stock one with the TFS reference marks.

The TFS become critical to use when you have slight differences between banks and have to retard one back more than the other to balance the intake center line.

Thanks again guys!! I'll post up a short clip of the dial indicator results.





yep does it in every key way...
Leads me to think the woodruff key is wearing out or wore out slightly. How many miles does your crank have Thump?
Are there replacement woodruff keys for these kellog cranks?

It has exactly 0 miles on it.
I would guess that the OEM ford woodruff keys would work.
F1AZ-6B316-AA $2.44 from Tasca Parts.

 

[DiMora]

I've seen some guys install double Woodruff keys on their cranks and gear sets / dampers for precisely that reason, but it is too late to do once the short-block is built.

I think it is probably fine, but I would ask Livernois, JDM, Brenspeed or other respected modular engine builders for an opinion. You might be able to try a different Woodruff key and get a tighter result - perhaps yours is worn a bit? Grab the one off of your OEM crank and see what happens.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I'll try that. But surprises me that a woodruff key would wear like that after 11,000 miles. Are they easily replaced? Mine looks like it practically welded in there. lol

Dimora, my crank is double keyed, but just for the balancer.

 

[DiMora]

I'll try that. But surprises me that a woodruff key would wear like that after 11,000 miles. Are they easily replaced? Mine looks like it practically welded in there. lol

Dimora, my crank is double keyed, but just for the balancer.

I've not replaced one on a modular, but on a 335 series Ford, I tapped it out with a punch and then installed the new one with a hard rubber mallet.

Someone else with modular experience can chime in.

You could easily go to a machine shop and have a custom one made that is a bit thicker to remove the slop, as long as you make sure you get one that is hardened, etc.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I removed my keyway...just took the flat end of a screwdriver and pried the woodruff key out. It came right out...

I don't remember if I went through this last time, but how do these TFS adjustable gears work? I was going to mark up a stock crank gear with corresponding TFS timing marks. But the stock and TFS timing marks are the same... What the??

 

[BeachMonkey100]

I removed mine with a small brass punch and cleaned the recess out and replaced mine with red loctite and a new key with a rubber mallet.

 

[thump_rrr]

I removed my keyway...just took the flat end of a screwdriver and pried the woodruff key out. It came right out...

I don't remember if I went through this last time, but how do these TFS adjustable gears work? I was going to mark up a stock crank gear with corresponding TFS timing marks. But the stock and TFS timing marks are the same... What the??

Will post some pics.

Here you go

 

[AutoXRacer]

I put the gears on top of the stock ones and things seemed to align...but looking closely...

Stock timing...the stock gear is on the bottom of the TFS gear.

Tooths are aligned.

4 degrees retard

You can see the TSF tooth is moving to the right or counter clockwise of the stock timing tooth on the stock gear.

8 degrees retard.

Here is 2 degrees advance...

TFS tooth moved counter clockwise or to the left of the stock timing tooth.

So I can't use the stock gears if I want to retard my cams... sigh

It just seems like these TFS gears really move, rattle, or whatever they do. The mating surface of the two gears is all worn off. What will they look like 50K miles later?

 

[thump_rrr]

I put the gears on top of the stock ones and things seemed to align...but looking closely...

Stock timing...the stock gear is on the bottom of the TFS gear.

Tooths are aligned.

4 degrees retard

You can see the TSF tooth is moving to the right or counter clockwise of the stock timing tooth on the stock gear.

8 degrees retard.

Here is 2 degrees advance...

TFS tooth moved counter clockwise or to the left of the stock timing tooth.

So I can't use the stock gears if I want to retard my cams... sigh

It just seems like these TFS gears really move, rattle, or whatever they do. The mating surface of the two gears is all worn off. What will they look like 50K miles later?

I believe you said you have 1,000 miles on them.
If they haven't even worn the finish off the teeth after 1,000 miles you should be good.
I think you are over thinking and stressing for nothing but as I have said before with your previous luck I don't blame you.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Here is the play on the stock gears:

Stock gears


TFS gears


I measured the passenger side gear and it felt like the driver side gear had more slop. But I couldn't measure it due to clearance issues with setup the dial indicator.

But it is less than 1/2 a degree for cam timing...but what bugs me is that fact that there is play in it. I imagine full on and off throttle conditions these gears must be beating themselves to hell on the woodruff key...no?

Again, maybe when you torque up the balance it sandwiches everything together and locks it in place.

I'll just slap it in there and hope for the best.

Would you guys replace the woodruff key or leave it alone?
It only has 11,000 miles.

 

[lito]

I would suggest you installing the balancer before the oil pan so you can check play once the balancer is in place, the gears look worn on the side a lot or is it an effect of the ultra detail camera you using for the pics?

 

[AutoXRacer]

Its the high definition pictures....

But I am surprised the sides are that worn with only 1,000 miles or so.
Once I released the tensioners, there is no more play.

Left side

Right side

Timing done!!

I rechecked the ICL and they were 109.5; same as build II.
I know I didn't need to do it...but it just piece of mind. I also totally forgot how to degree cams. sigh Had to learn all over again. lol

I thought about retarding the cams an additional 2 degrees for a total of 111.5 ICL. I was thinking more retard would lower the torque on the bottom end of the RPM range. But I did not want to go into uncharted territory. Last build was a great one...don't mess with a good recipe. lol

 

[AutoXRacer]

Got some work done on the motor in the past few days...

Goodbye Super Cobra Jet mono-blade, hello VMP Tuning 67mm throttle body...

VMP Tuning GenII case with Stiegy's Venom Cooler mod.

 

[Wes06]

so how well does that cooler mod work?

 

[AutoXRacer]

Not sure, I think I'm the first to try it on a bigger blower. Typically this mod is done on the smaller blowers (M90).

 

[eighty6gt]

General question - how is checking the oil possible with the inlet on this side? I'm mocking up my driver's side inlet blower system and it looks like it's going to stink.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Its fine...it sits right next to the inlet tube:

 

[tigerhonaker]

Gerald,

Man it looks good.

T.