Diagnosing charge motion plate issue

[droptopstang]

I just had my check engine light come on yesterday and its P2004/2005 which is for the charge motion control plates being stuck open. I can't say I'm too surprised with this because I have always suspected a slight problem with them since I got the car with how it drives (seems like they open later than they should and I get a surge of power around 3k rpm). Anyways, I've had the intake off before to clean them and IIRC the motor defaults (with no power to it) to the closed position. If it was the motor that went out wouldn't the valves be stuck shut? Going to feel around back there later tonight to see if I can find any obvious hangups or loose connections, just seems weird to me that they would get stuck open. Not that I'm complaining much cause I just gained a lot more low end torque which seems to confirm my suspicion about them not operating correctly to being with, but I would still like to get it back to normal operation.

I searched everywhere I could think of and can't for the life of me find a replacement control motor for them. I don't really feel like spending the money to go the delete plate and tune route right now.

 

[Steve@Tasca]

I'd say you're on the right track, there's linkage back there so you should be able to feel the arms move if they're moving.

I've honestly not seen many issues with these so I don't have any great advice.

-Steve

 

[NUTCASE]

Did you check the butterflies themselves to see if they are gunked up? If that is not the case I would just delete the damn things. It was the second thing to go on my car.

Hindsight being 20/20 the mod was not worth it power wise, but if you want an easy way out of repairing the things I would look into it.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Just delete the charge motion control valves altogether and get a CMCV delete tune. Trust me, you won't miss them one bit.

 

[droptopstang]

Did you check the butterflies themselves to see if they are gunked up? If that is not the case I would just delete the damn things. It was the second thing to go on my car.

Hindsight being 20/20 the mod was not worth it power wise, but if you want an easy way out of repairing the things I would look into it.

That is why I took it all apart a few months back to clean all the carbon buildup off. They are brand spankin new looking now and everything seemed to be in good shape when it was apart.

Just delete the charge motion control valves altogether and get a CMCV delete tune. Trust me, you won't miss them one bit.

Yeah I can't imagine I would miss them at all, I just don't want to spend that much money on this issue. Hoping I can just find a stock motor to replace and see if that fixes it.

 

[droptopstang]

I'd say you're on the right track, there's linkage back there so you should be able to feel the arms move if they're moving.

I've honestly not seen many issues with these so I don't have any great advice.

-Steve

I still have to feel back there and see if it moves at all with throttle. Do you have any idea if ford even makes those motors anymore?

 

[2005Redfire6]

I still have to feel back there and see if it moves at all with throttle. Do you have any idea if ford even makes those motors anymore?

I am sure there is plenty of people on here with some laying around, I think my set is somewhere in the shed.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Do you have any idea if ford even makes those motors anymore?

I have a couple of good spare CMCV actuators if you're interested in buying one of them.

 

[QuickShift281]

Anyone else able to shed any light on this subject?

I have a 2009 GT sitting in the stall right now throwing both codes of IMRC stuck OPEN and IMRC stuck CLOSED. The runners are defaulted to a neutral position without power. Went out and looked at my 2005 GT and they are defaulted a closed position without power. I have checked to make sure that the pigtail between the main harness and the actuator has continuity, which it does. The runners can move freely and have a normal amount of carbon build up, nothing excessive though. The only other thing I can think of is that there is a fuse blown or a relay that is dead, however, I don't see any listing for a fuse inline to the IMRC actuator.

I know that the "simple" solution would be to do IMRC deletes and have a calibration written up to do the delete and shut down the test for the IMRC and shut the codes off, however the gentleman would like to avoid doing that if he can.

I have a couple of good spare CMCV actuators if you're interested in buying one of them.

What are you asking for a actuator? I may be interested in one.

 

[droptopstang]

I have a couple of good spare CMCV actuators if you're interested in buying one of them.

Yeah I would be, I'll send you a pm.

 

[BruceH]

Anyone else able to shed any light on this subject?

I have a 2009 GT sitting in the stall right now throwing both codes of IMRC stuck OPEN and IMRC stuck CLOSED. The runners are defaulted to a neutral position without power. Went out and looked at my 2005 GT and they are defaulted a closed position without power. I have checked to make sure that the pigtail between the main harness and the actuator has continuity, which it does. The runners can move freely and have a normal amount of carbon build up, nothing excessive though. The only other thing I can think of is that there is a fuse blown or a relay that is dead, however, I don't see any listing for a fuse inline to the IMRC actuator.

I know that the "simple" solution would be to do IMRC deletes and have a calibration written up to do the delete and shut down the test for the IMRC and shut the codes off, however the gentleman would like to avoid doing that if he can.





What are you asking for a actuator? I may be interested in one.

Multiple codes are usually associated with the alternator and or battery going bad.

I have a spare cmcv motor I'd sell for $20 plus shipping if anyone is interested.

I might be the only person who went from deletes to cmcv. Having the system increased mpg and made for easier in town driving. I really wonder why I went with deletes. Deletes make tuning a whole lot easier but I really doubt they add any power whatsoever.

 

[QuickShift281]

Update on my half.

Took the entire manifold and IMRC assembly off my 2005 GT and swapped it onto the 2009 just for s***s and giggles. No codes, and was actuating as it should. No codes, no issues. Gonna say that I have found the issue. Putting the 09's manifold back on and going to see what it acts like.

Multiple codes are usually associated with the alternator and or battery going bad.

I have a spare cmcv motor I'd sell for $20 plus shipping if anyone is interested.

I might be the only person who went from deletes to cmcv. Having the system increased mpg and made for easier in town driving. I really wonder why I went with deletes. Deletes make tuning a whole lot easier but I really doubt they add any power whatsoever.

Hang onto that motor for me. I may be interested in it, I will PM you in the few days if that is OK with you.

 

[NUTCASE]

Multiple codes are usually associated with the alternator and or battery going bad.

I have a spare cmcv motor I'd sell for $20 plus shipping if anyone is interested.

I might be the only person who went from deletes to cmcv. Having the system increased mpg and made for easier in town driving. I really wonder why I went with deletes. Deletes make tuning a whole lot easier but I really doubt they add any power whatsoever.

Its ok if you swapped the for the same reason I did.

All those 20hp 20tq easy gain promises.

A lot of us did it. There was simply no evidence against it at the time and the mod made sense.

I remember when I went to install them, I opened the old ones up, looked at how much space there was, then I looked at the intake mani runners and was like "hmmm, I don't think this is going to be worth it." Well....it wasant LOL. Smoke and mirrors.

 

[BruceH]

Its ok if you swapped the for the same reason I did.

All those 20hp 20tq easy gain promises.

A lot of us did it. There was simply no evidence against it at the time and the mod made sense.

I remember when I went to install them, I opened the old ones up, looked at how much space there was, then I looked at the intake mani runners and was like "hmmm, I don't think this is going to be worth it." Well....it wasant LOL. Smoke and mirrors.

Right up there with underdrive pulleys. I'll admit that I've run them but they didn't do a thing and probably just add to the chance of bad harmonics doing damage to the oil pump.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Right up there with underdrive pulleys.

Actually if you do underdrive pulleys and CMDPs at the same time (I did this in March last year) with a CMCV delete tune, you'll gain around 14hp/16lbft (see dyno thread below and no, it's not mine).

http://themustangsource.com/forums/f669/steeda-udp-cmdp-dynoed-14-25-hp-16-43-tq-466365/

The Steeda underdrive pulleys are SFI certified and they won't cause bad harmonics that'll damage the oil pump so don't believe internet myths.

 

[BruceH]

Actually if you do underdrive pulleys and CMDPs at the same time (I did this in March last year) with a CMCV delete tune, you'll gain around 14hp/16lbft (see dyno thread below and no, it's not mine).

http://themustangsource.com/forums/f669/steeda-udp-cmdp-dynoed-14-25-hp-16-43-tq-466365/

The Steeda underdrive pulleys are SFI certified and they won't cause bad harmonics that'll damage the oil pump so don't believe internet myths.

I've known people who have had the Steeda udps come apart. The balancer to be specific. The specific ones I had didn't come apart but the motor wasn't as smooth, it was "buzzy" and the buzzy noise and harmonics went away when the udps were taken off.

You can believe what you want, IMO there is no way deleting the cmcv is going to gain anything with all other things being the same. Even with the cmcv in the way the motor has access to more air than it can digest.

Now changing the tune to have the cmcv open sooner could add more power in the lower end. IIRC the stock table doesn't open them fully until around 3k. I'd have to look at the tune to know for sure. Having them open sooner would be a tune issue, not a cmcv issue imo. IMO it's worth having them (cmcv) for someone who daily drives their car. I should say it's worth it for me.

Opinions, we all have them.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

I've had Steeda UDPs and DIY CMDPs on my car since March last year and I'd never go back to stock. My motor is glass smooth right up to 6000+rpm and there's none of that "buzziness" that you refer to. The performance benefits have been well-established by multiple dyno tests on various cars so I don't understand the continued scepticism. I also saw an improvement in gas mileage, and I do about 7000 miles/year in my Mustang as it shares driving duties with my Jeep.

 

[fdjizm]

Deletes for years & UDP's with no issues.

 

[BruceH]

I've had Steeda UDPs and DIY CMDPs on my car since March last year and I'd never go back to stock. My motor is glass smooth right up to 6000+rpm and there's none of that "buzziness" that you refer to. The performance benefits have been well-established by multiple dyno tests on various cars so I don't understand the continued scepticism. I also saw an improvement in gas mileage, and I do about 7000 miles/year in my Mustang as it shares driving duties with my Jeep.

I'm not saying that your experience are the same as mine. I'm relaying my experiences. I saw a mpg improvement of over 2mpg while using my car for daily driving when I installed cmcv. This is mostly urban driving of 15 miles one way to work, normal in town driving.

I know that all of the other parameters common to mpg like revs per mile, pulses per gallon, etc stayed the same.

My skepticism is based on my experiences, not yours. Peace.

 

[lito]

There are no gains to be made on CMDPs on stockish engines.