2005 Gt Rallycross build

Discussion in 'Corner Carver Racing Tech Discussion' started by OutlawEvans, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

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    Hello, Hi there, thank you for checking out my dumb but great idea. This section mentioned autox so I figured this was the right place.

    Anyways a bit about me. I've been doing this sport for about 6 years
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    Bought this POS to play with
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    Stripped it out, caged, suspension work, welded diff, yadayadayada but stock power plant and drive train. 180k and kicking. Super fun car
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    Been drifting this car for about two years doing almost 2 events a month. Super reliable, buuuuttt I want to go racing now, actual timed fun stuff. And ever since Colin McCrae rally racing games I've always loved rally racing. So a little digging I found about 3 hours away at Glen Helen there's regular Rallycross events, did some more digging and found this

    https://blog.americanmuscle.com/2016/08/16/customer-spotlight-the-rally-mustang/

    Bad AASSSS. So now I've decided to go this route, so commence goals and build list.

    Goals.
    2019 Get minimum modifications fitted on mustang and test on dirt, see if it's even a good idea. If so commence more modifications and practice events.
    2020. Have mustang built to my liking and bugs worked out, go for the Cali rallycross glen helen championship of 6 events, two races are dropped in the year. If funds allow also go for the California regional rallycross championship of glen helen, santa rosa, and prairie city.
    2021 Compete in scca rallycross national championship, keep building the car
    2022 onward, get car setup and start doing stage rally events.

    Minimum build list for rallycross
    Bilstein HD Struts (Suspension advice appreciated)
    GT500 strut top mounts
    Go back to stock shocks to sit higher
    Winter driving or Light passenger Truck, or Gravel tires. More research is needed

    Long run Rallycross build list
    Rallywheel Setup. Methods, OZ rally wheels, motegi rally wheels, ect. whatever fits with my chosen tire path
    Fabricate a skid plate
    Fabricate a lightbar, put on light pods for old school rally look
    Rally armor motorsport mud flaps


    Stage Rally Build list
    Tbd.

    Current Questions I have for the Community
    -What suspension setup do you recommend for higher ride height and more shock travel
    -What gravel/truck tire can fit under the arches of an s197?


    Thanks for looking! Check out my Instagram if you want to see more real time @He_fullthorttlelife

    Resources for me and those interested
    https://www.sccarallycross.com/
    https://www.calclubrallyx.com/
    http://californiarallyseries.com/
    http://www.nasarallysport.com/main/Rally-University
    https://medium.com/@JimRowland/where-to-buy-rallycross-tires-b6d0a93d9e20
     
  2. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

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    Hey guys does anyone know if a 255/55/18 tire would fit under the arches of a stock height s197? I think this is the tire size featured on the American muscle car
     
  3. Iceman62

    Iceman62 Bullitt 6005

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    Looks like you're having tons of fun! Can't help w/the tire fitment question, but I'm sure someone will chime in for the assist.

    Good luck w/the racing ventures!
     
    OutlawEvans likes this.
  4. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

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    Thank you!! Hopefully it works out good.

    Tire research update. So I’ve seen that most people recommend a 15in rally tire since that’s the most popular size and will work the best. I’m not sure if a 15in wheel will fit all around. Also some people have suggested running winter tires, but apparently they’re very soft and people say they can Debead. I’m thinking with the heavier mustang this might be a problem. So far I’m looking at a 255/55/18 light truck all terrain tire, hopefully they fit
     
  5. 86GT351

    86GT351 forum member

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    Very cool build.
     
  6. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    I've done a less than amateur "rallycross" type racing 2 or 3 times about 20 years ago in addition to a couple years of local SCCA TSD rallys. It (rallycross) absolutely beats the shit out of the suspension and everything it's attached too., so be prepared to change/rebuild it often. Very often. The chassis is going to take a pounding too. If you haven't already, I would suggest you pull the interior back out and seam weld every seam.

    As to 15" v. 18" wheels. If you have the stock '05'09 GT brakes you can fit 15" wheels. You will want sidewall when you are pounding through the woods on rutted roads and rocks with washouts and potholes that become lakes when it rains.

    You will find an additional inch or two of suspension height will be very welcome if you can find it.
     
  7. bujeezus

    bujeezus forum member

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    255/45-18 fit on my stock Bullitt, lowered 2".
     
  8. NUTCASE

    NUTCASE forum member

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    with the S197 sometimes it just not worth it to force the 15in. You can do a 17in, have ample sidewall, and not have to make all sorts of exceptions to get the wheels over the brakes.

    I wouldn't go light truck, I would go A/T. Right now I have Pirelli Scorpion ATR (275/65r18) on my envoy that I take off road about once per month. They are considered low end for an A/T because they are not as aggressive as KO2s or Duratrac but they are a more street use friendly option. I have been nothing but impressed by these tires, but I also have a rear locker and I'm in it more for the exploration and not for the "lets break the truck".

    However what I DO do is put it in 4auto, get some speed up on the green trails, come off some dirt apexes drop the hammer and let her eat.

    Moral of the story the Pirelli Scorpioin ATR might be good for you because they are designed to operate at speed. I actually had handling and was able to turn in foot deep mud last week and I think this is in line with rallycross goals.

    I just did some quick searching and there seems to be a challenge finding A/T tires below 29in on a 17in rim. I think A/T below 29in in general is just not common. Never realized that cause I was always looking for tires on my SUV.

    If you are worried about loosing your bead do beadlocks. It cost money, but that is the solution.
     
  9. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    I think rally tires are available for 16" wheels. And I am pretty sure there are a lot of A/T tires in the 16" size that might fit the bill. Something to look in to. Might pan out. Might not.
     
  10. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

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    Thanks everyone for the information and support! Really appreciated. I’ll have to take a look into 16in wheels and rally gravel tire availability/pricing. I’ll take a look into a/t tires in 18in since I have a set of wheels I don’t mind tearing up in that size.

    I’m my long term plan to do stage rally I will have to cut out part of my current cage and add more bars to others. I plan on doing stitch welding then. Maybe I’ll try to do it sooner than later depending on availability of my dads welder lol.

    Also i have just the standard calipers, except on the rear I have a separate set for my hydraulic handbrake
     
  11. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

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    Did some digging on the 16in rally tire possibility. I’ve seen one vendor called maxsport America’s offering a hard and medium compound. Couldn’t find anything anywhere else. The worry I have about this is avalibilty and with rally seeming to be less and less popular (in the states) if they might get phased out completely.

    So I think right now, I’m going to find a cheap 15in wheel with my bolt pattern to test fit the front and rear calipers. If it works, then 15in gravel tires

    If not then I’ll decide between 18in a/t or light truck tires
     
  12. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    Barrel shape is the key for 15" fitment with the stock brakes. The barrel needs to be almost flat or inverted for caliper clearance. Lots of wheels have a tapered shape that gets smaller as it approaches the face of the wheel.
     
  13. NUTCASE

    NUTCASE forum member

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    After reading this yesterday I looked into rally racing and I would have to drive +3 hrs for a rally. I would love to build a car and just send the shit out of it but not when I only got 3 events/yr over 3 hrs away.
     
  14. NUTCASE

    NUTCASE forum member

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    Also the shape of the back of the wheel face is important because the calipers stick out well past the wheel mounting surface. If that isint a fit you need spacers, then you need longer lugs.

    Then depending on your wheel width and backspacing you may need to relocate the rear sway bar.

    Then you might have to take a grinder to your calipers still.

    All of these things are minor, but they add up and go back to my statement that you might want to save the headaches and just go with a bigger rim. I did 15in drag setup before darkstars were a thing so I had to go through all of this.
     
  15. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

    247
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  16. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

    247
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  17. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

    247
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    Found a site that stocks 16in gravel tires in a medium and hard compounds. I sent the guy an email and he said there regularly in stock and a popular selling tire. The 17in tires from rally.build said he doesn't stock them often and gets a pallet once in awhile of them in.

    Right now I'm thinking of keeping a set of black str wheels I have that are 18s than getting some A/T tires for them like the Yokohama geolanders in 245/60/18s. Then I'll sell my other set of rotiforms and get some 16in rally wheels. Also found this site stocking 16iners http://www.rm-autosports.com/black-rocket-gravel-rally-tire-br-44-215-65-16/.

    Also there's a cali club rallycross in april so im going to drive out to check it out. Make sure it's worth it before doing all of this lol
     
  18. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

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    Shoutout to bl817 for sending me over some gt500 springs!! They should work perfectly when I get the Bilstein struts

    Does anyone happen to have Gt500 strut mounts they don’t need :rolleyes:? I’ll take care of shipping
     
  19. OutlawEvans

    OutlawEvans forum member

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    Found some good motivation for the build. 2 guys that run Rally America took out two mustangs around 2010 to compete against each other. Looks like a great time

     
  20. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    I can tell you, as a spectator, nothing...NOTHING...sounds like an angry Mustang roaring through the woods unseen but getting louder and louder until the car rips around a blind corner, rips up the dirt road kicks the tail out, throws rocks and dirt all over the place, kicking up dust and drifts around the corner as it pulls gear after gear up and over the hump and disappears back into the woods with the sweet sweet sound of that angry 5.0 echoing off all the trees.

    This experience was real. It happened in the PA woods during the Susquehanna Trail Pro Rally in the late 90's. The car was 5.0 LX hatchback. Bight yellow. Small cowl induction hood. Pushrod 302. Cool ass car.

    I took a chance and googled the car I watched race. Shit. I found pics.

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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019