2008 Stage 3 ROUSH - Rebirth...

[skwerl]

But you're still burning a ton of oil, right?

 

[AutoXRacer]

But you're still burning a ton of oil, right?

Yep...

It could be that certain cylinder walls are glazed and will take a while to break through the glaze. I don't know.

Bruce, whats your take on this? If compression and leak-down are indeed good...what now?

 

[Timmbo]

Any smoke at all on start up after it sits a day or two? Trying to rule out valve seals.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Nope, car has never smoked. Actually once on the dyno during revs. But I attribute that to all the oil that was being sucked into the intake.

I got a camera near the license plate, I am continuously looking for smoke at various conditions; WOT, off-throttle, between shifts, startup, etc... No smoke.

 

[S197 Bullitt]

No results yet... Actually the shop will be doing it today. Figured if anything comes about, the results would be more legit from an actual shop vs me doing it and have the possibility of arguing whether I did it right, etc...

I have somewhat of a hard time with this trouble shoot. Please, I am not trying to insult you, by any means. But this is basic stuff. If your getting oil usage, then 1st thing to ask is: where is it coming from & where is it going to? Is oil smoke coming from your exhaust: if yes then oil is going past the rings or into the intake. If not: then continue on ...etc.
One of the first things you should do is a compression test, its as easy as checking your dipstick. That result will answer one big question.
Basically I just can't understand how come you have never done a compression test since the first time the engine started up.

 

[BruceH]

Yep...

It could be that certain cylinder walls are glazed and will take a while to break through the glaze. I don't know.

Bruce, whats your take on this? If compression and leak-down are indeed good...what now?

Marc is the guy to ask. My guess would be that you need to record the oil usage. To insure that it isn't being overfilled let it get down to a half to full quart low. I've had vehicles that would get rid of extra oil pretty quick and then not use any. Fill it to midline on the dipstick and monitor from there.

If it's still using an unacceptable amount of oil I'd pull the motor, tear down the shortblock, and see if anything jumped out like incorrectly installed rings or even broken rings. The results wouldn't matter too much anyway because at that point I'd take it in to ATS in Everett and have them measure the bores and cylinders, set the piston to bore clearance to Manley specs with their Rottler diamond hone, and fit new rings. It would be under $500 depending on what was done. Add in gaskets, etc. needed to put it back together and you would be out another $300 or so. I really think it would cost you around $500-$600 total as long as you supply the labor for everything but the machine shop stuff.

Once it was torn down and gone through you would know that everything was how it's supposed to be. There would be no more stress about the motor because you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was done correctly. That's one reason I do most of my own work, it gives me piece of mind.

Talk to Marc when you pick up your car or send him a pm from here, he will know the best way to tackle the oil consumption issue.

I'd have no problem helping you put it back together if you wanted the help. It would save me from doing unnecessary mods to my car and spending money.

 

[skwerl]

Damn Bruce, too bad you don't live in Orlando.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Awesome, thanks Bruce.

But not sure I want to deal with TMS anymore... The whole thing has me a little suspect on the work they did on my car.

Well, first, they tried to convince me my gear noise is normal, that 4.10s are noisy gears and that my car isn't normal (meaning its extremely modified).

OK, moving on...

Compression and Leak-down

So I requested the shop perform a compression and leak-down test.
Here are the results:
.................Compres - leak-down
Cylinder #1: 155 PSI - 7% leak-down
Cylinder #2: 150 PSI - 9% leak-down
Cylinder #3: 155 PSI - 7% leak-down
Cylinder #4: 155 PSI - 7% leak-down
Cylinder #5: 155 PSI - 9% leak-down
Cylinder #6: 155 PSI - 8% leak-down
Cylinder #7: 155 PSI - 7% leak-down
Cylinder #8: NA (shop skipped it due to having to R&R the throttle body and they figured all the other cylinders were showing completely normal.)

So I just performed my own compression test and got completely different results.
Here is what I did. I warmed up the car to normal operating temp; 190 head temp/185 coolant. Removed all plugs and started with cylinder #1. I told my GF to crank the motor until I told her to stop. I let her crank the motor until I got the highest reading/until the reading settled; which was around 4 seconds of continuous cranking per cylinder.

Here are my readings:

Cylinder #1: 205 PSI
Cylinder #2: 210 PSI
Cylinder #3: 200 PSI
Cylinder #4: 215 PSI
Cylinder #5: 215 PSI
Cylinder #6: 200 PSI
Cylinder #7: 200 PSI
Cylinder #8: 215 PSI

So why are my results off the wall??? Why such a huge difference?

I tried to perform the leak-down, but I would have had to remove the radiator fan with the coolant and supercharger tanks along with the power steering reservoir.

Now here is the kicker, if the shop was so adamant to R&R a throttle body, do you think they R&R the radiator fan and associated parts to be able to insert a socket into the crank to rotated the motor? Just to clear it up, I have a 03-04 spider-crank that bolts into my crankshaft pulley. So you need a 14mm hex to insert to rotate the crankshaft. So, this extra work leads me to believe it may not have been done; where did those numbers come from? Any if they didn't perform it, why didn't they just say it. I would have been disappointed, but at least I would have respected their honesty.

Unless there is another way shops use to rotate the crank to find TDC and closed valves...

I hate to assume and accuse, but its been troubling since I tried to perform my own leak-down test.

What do you guys think of the numbers...?

I should also add, that my dipstick has a burnt oil on it; towards the middle of the stick. Charred black oil. I pulled the dipstick out while the motor was running and smoke was coming out. I think the dipstick tube is too close to the headers. But how else can it be routed. Its kind of stuck that way. When I put everything together, I even wrapped and shielded the dipstick tube with high temp sleeving. Its not helping. sigh
I'll post a pic of the dipstick later...

 

[one eyed willy]

They did a leak down test....you did a compression test...

2 different things entirely.

 

[AutoXRacer]

They did a leak down test....you did a compression test...

2 different things entirely.

The shop did both; I requested both.

 

[skwerl]

You can bend the dipstick tube quite a bit as long as you don't break it. It's just metal tubing.

 

[one eyed willy]

The shop did both; I requested both.

You asked why the tests are so different....you posted a leak down test and a compression test, those 2 type of tests will give you completely different results. In order to make a proper comparison, post up their compression test results also.

When I need to rotate the crank I do it from the bottom side, nothing in the way when doing it from the bottom

 

[AutoXRacer]

You asked why the tests are so different....you posted a leak down test and a compression test, those 2 type of tests will give you completely different results. In order to make a proper comparison, post up their compression test results also.

When I need to rotate the crank I do it from the bottom side, nothing in the way when doing it from the bottom

It is posted...the 155 and 150 PSI number is their compression test results. The 7%-9% result is the leak down.

I can't rotate my crank like you can. I have a spider gear bolted to the front of the engine. I have a dual belt blower. See below:

The spacing between the spider crank pulley and radiator fan is really tight. You can only slide half you hand in between; not enough room for a hex socket. Fan and associated hardware need to be removed.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Have you guys been following my oil consumption issues?

Well, I had a buddy follow me yesterday for a +6 hour road trip (went to Race Wars and got rained out. sigh).
He said he noticed when I stop at a traffic light, that as soon as I get going after sitting there, I get a light puff of smoke and then it clears up.

My question is, my PCV system is deleted, how I am accumulating oil while idling? What is this a sign of?

Update on the build:
For this winter, I am planning to line the interior floor and possibly doors with Dynamat. I really liked the results I got from lining the trunk, so I am hoping doing the interior will just sweeten up the pot.

I am also working on the brakes. I really need better pads that won't chew up the rotors. I am working with Porterfield to come up with a carbon rotor and pad option.

Oh and find some track tires that are street-able for commuting to and from the track.

 

[one eyed willy]

Valve seals could cause oil at idle, what heads?

 

[AutoXRacer]

Valve seals could cause oil at idle, what heads?

FRPP Stage 1 heads...pretty much stock heads.

 

[one eyed willy]

I'm not sure how you can check valve seals with the heads on the car.

 

[BruceH]

FRPP Stage 1 heads...pretty much stock heads.

They flow a significant amount of more air than the stock heads. They do come with stock springs though. It's around 20% more air. I have a set of almost new 2009 stock heads I'll trade you for, lol.

 

[Back@itagain]

FRPP Stage 1 heads...pretty much stock heads.

And who does the FRPP cylinder head work???

 

[BruceH]

And who does the FRPP cylinder head work???

Rhetorical?