Adjustable Panhard Bar recommendation- 2014 GT

[crjackson]

I guess I’ll have to drag my old bones up under there and have a look.

 

[GlassTop09]

Is this the one you guys are upgrading to, or are you upgrading to something else?

https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-pe...ith-cooler-ports-mustang-1986-2014/p/M4033KA/

My car came stock with this one. The advertisement mentions the accommodation for a oil cooler, temp sensor, drain/fill, but it doesn’t mention vent location.

Yep...........

 

[Pentalab]

Precisely. The axle tube vent and the cover's plug have already switched places (but haven't been fully tightened yet).

Plus the ability to change the fluid without having to remove and replace the cover or try to squeeze fluid a few ounces at a time through the same hole that it will come back out of.

I'd already bought the cover a while ago but the job it was mainly associated with went on indefinite hold for a number of reasons. I've been out of active HPDE for a couple of years now (health issues) but am hoping to get back into it, if at a less serious pace. Either way, the finned cover is going on the car and any help it can provide for overly enthusiastic passes through any of my unofficial "test loops" will be greatly appreciated. At least I found the little packet of cover bolts this morning.

Feels good to get my little mod project underway again (Torsen, 3.73s, cover, revised rear ride height).


Norm

Point well taken. In my case, I removed the BMR adjustable PHB..and replaced it with a whiteline watts link. It came with a massive aluminum differential cover..and super thick. The flange, where it bolts to the differential is aprx 5/8" thick. 4 x 60mm bolts..and 1 x 40mm bolt are used to bolt the 'spider' to the differential cover. The aluminum cover has a lot of mass to it. At the same time, in went the eaton tru-trac.....and also the 75W-140 dino oil. Aluminum conducts heat almost triple that of steel. Also installed the bob's motorsports aluminum catch can for the axle. The new differential cover also comes with drain + fill plugs..so adding/ draining oil is easy. Also used a 'lube locker' gasket on the new cover.

So far, so good.

 

[Norm Peterson]

One other thing is that even if you only relocate the OE vent, it's getting moved to a place that's a bit more out of the way for getting clogged with dust/dirt. The OE vent isn't hard to clean, but you do have to do it once in a while.


Norm

 

[crjackson]

Norm, if you get the chance, take pics, and detail the vent swap. I’m thinking that although I have the same cover installed by the factory, my vent is on the axle-tube. I’m guessing the cover plug is an Allen head.

I think I saw the vent on my left-side axle-tube, when messing around with the PHB.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Here you go . . . that's the plug that came out of my cover.

My OE vent location is on the passenger side, for whatever that might be worth.




Norm

 

[GlassTop09]

Got my Ford Performance M-4033-KR 8.8" Finned Diff cover today (FedEx delivered) & have already installed it. Mine came w\ the same vent plug that Norm showed in his picture.

I had 3 qts of MC 75W-140 Synthetic gear oil & a bottle of MC Friction Modifier spare (which I won't be needing once the Tru-Trac goes in) & a set of Ford Performance M-5570-A GT500 rear axle bump stops that I've put off installing long enough so I did it all today.
I really liked that w\ this finned cover Ford designed an internal baffle w\ cover plate to further prevent any diff fluids from coming out the cover vent port when it is venting inner axle expansion pressure.
Used a Lube Locker 8.8" gasket to seal her up......best thing since sliced bread....

Pulled my JLT rear axle catch can & axle fitting (hose had oil in it), installed vent plug in rear axle tube vent port then installed axle vent in cover vent port after cleaning it up good & testing to make sure that it works properly.

Loaded her up w\ fresh MC gear oil\friction modifier then took her on a little road trip to work it all in....all is well.

Shoulda got this cover from the jump......oh well, it's on there now & looking good!

Thank you all for the information to inspire my motivation......!

 

[Norm Peterson]

Well, my PHB showed up this morning (seems Ford Performance prefers to use Fedex), along with a spare set of bushings & sleeves.


Norm

 

[crjackson]

Mine didn’t come with spare bushings. That a nice touch there.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Mine didn’t come with spare bushings. That a nice touch there.

I ordered the second set (separate line item on the invoice, around $40 IIRC. But worth having in case it goes out of production.

I'll most likely end up having to do a DIY mod (as installed, the poly is longer than the sleeve). I'll either trim the poly or add washers at the ends of the sleeves. Not sure which way I'm going to go just yet as it'll depend on PHB end width vs chassis-side bracket inside room.


Norm

 

[crjackson]

Here’s what came with mine

I didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary (as if I would). Since no shaving of the bushings was done, what problems do I have in store down the road.

 

[Norm Peterson]

When the poly is longer than the sleeve, there is a greater likelihood of squeaks (some or a lot of which come from the ends of the poly against the sides of the brackets) and clunks (under the combination of PHB loading in a corner plus suspension movement). Getting the poly away from the bracket sides seems to be key to quieting those issues down. As long as poly to bracket clearances are kept small and the sleeve to poly surfaces are lubricated, there doesn't seem to be any downsides involving water intrusion or sleeve rusting.

It's basically the LCA noise issues turned 90°, so they may be less apparent anyway. But I'm planning to get ahead of the whole matter from the get-go with one approach or the other (or maybe a little of each). I don't see the need for shaving much of a cone shape into the poly ends, though, as there isn't as much off-axis rotation going on at the PHB as there is in the rear control arms. That's for corner-carving; I'm not sure how much pinion angle change might be happening in a car built more for the straight line stuff.


Norm

 

[crjackson]

I did start to develop some very minor squeaks when driving over speed bumps in parking lots months ago (before the PHB). It didn’t change after the PHB install.

As far as I can tell, the PHB hasn’t added any noises (yet). I suppose I’ll leave mine alone unless it becomes necessary in the future.

@GlassTop09, did you make any modifications to your bushings to prevent unwanted noises? If not, do you have any squeaking noises yet? I didn’t think about this until Norm pointed it out.

 

[GlassTop09]

I did start to develop some very minor squeaks when driving over speed bumps in parking lots months ago (before the PHB). It didn’t change after the PHB install.

As far as I can tell, the PHB hasn’t added any noises (yet). I suppose I’ll leave mine alone unless it becomes necessary in the future.

@GlassTop09, did you make any modifications to your bushings to prevent unwanted noises? If not, do you have any squeaking noises yet? I didn’t think about this until Norm pointed it out.

No squeaking out of mine yet & no I didn't do any modifications to the poly bushings. When I swapped out the covers I removed it....checked the bushings & saw all was still good & reinstalled it w\o adding any additional lubricant. I use Super Lube PTFE-based grease (very high in lubricity & adhesion, prohibits rust formation, is moisture repellant & holds up well under low to high temp swings. Safe to use on poly & most plastics) w\ my poly bushings & to date haven't had to reapply it due to squeaking issues. At some point in time I'll need to reapply it but to date I haven't needed to.

The bushing mods that Norm does to minimize squeaking or to ensure full torque application to center sleeves is a very good idea so 1 that I'll keep in mind going forward........

 

[crjackson]

Thanks …

I didn’t really understand the modifications that Norm proposed, until I took a peek at the OEM Panhard bar that was removed. Now I understand what was talked about. I find it strange that FRPP didn’t follow the same design configuration.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'll probably crawl under the Mustang sometime today to determine which way I'm going to go. Once I get enough ambition.


Off-topic, but related to the slow progress on my Mustang mod . . . I spent significant time over the last three days upgrading the brakes on our WRX. Not due to wear (about 2/3 remaining before hitting the minimum), but because pedal feel has been unsatisfying to either me or my wife from day 1. DBA 4000 rotors with Carbotech 1521 pads now installed and bedded in. <sigh> . . . seems I can't work nearly as fast as I could only a couple of years ago, and I don't recover nearly as fast either.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I didn’t really understand the modifications that Norm proposed, until I took a peek at the OEM Panhard bar that was removed. Now I understand what was talked about. I find it strange that FRPP didn’t follow the same design configuration.

Don't feel bad; most people don't have any idea how the end connections for various links, arms, and bars really need to work. For most car enthusiasts, whether DIY'ers or those who go the shop-install route, the only thing on their mind is taking the fore-aft compliances out of the "soft OE rubber bushings" as a measure to reduce or eliminate axle hop . . . without fully understanding the potential downsides of changing the OE bushings out for anything firmer or that there might even be any downsides.


Norm

 

[crjackson]

seems I can't work nearly as fast as I could only a couple of years ago, and I don't recover nearly as fast either.

Be glad that at least you’re still able to manage the work, even if slower. There hasn’t been any quick recoveries for me in years. It seems the Golden-Years actually happened when young.

These are the worn-out & tarnished-brittle years for me.

 

[GlassTop09]

Don't feel bad; most people don't have any idea how the end connections for various links, arms, and bars really need to work. For most car enthusiasts, whether DIY'ers or those who go the shop-install route, the only thing on their mind is taking the fore-aft compliances out of the "soft OE rubber bushings" as a measure to reduce or eliminate axle hop . . . without fully understanding the potential downsides of changing the OE bushings out for anything firmer or that there might even be any downsides.


Norm

Yeah, I'll admit that I was 1 of those. This S197 is the 1st car I've owned that used a 3 link rear suspension so I wasn't familiar w\ it's design thus geometry so since I was initially thinking straight line performance I made all the upgrades to optimize for that but in the process I also started noticing the ride compliance degradation w\ rear suspension seeming to "stiffen up" in turns causing some quirkiness so it became a little unsettling to me to push into turns......

That's changed now.....large part thanks to you Norm & others for y'all's posts in the Corner Carvers thread & me going thru Ford's engineering design\purpose of this 3 link rear suspension to tie it all together. Never get too old to learn something..........

As for my purposes the poly bushing design of the FRPP Adj PHB is not much of a concern as far as clunking goes as the off-axis twist rate in the PHB bushings will be essentially moot handling-wise in comparison to the rest (LCA, UCA) where axle articulation performance is concerned (mostly street use) & this Super Lube PTFE grease I use has shown to be very robust thus long lasting so the advent of squeaking is something I don't give much thought to....but I can also see where if a little of the outer 2\3rd of the bushings were shaved to a 1\64" to 1\32" taper the advent of any squeaking would be essentially gone so something to keep in mind to apply in the future if desired.

FYI.....waiting on my Roush 3rd Link to get here (Roush has a 8 week delay on manufacturing time) to install & see how it does in comparison to the 05-09 BMR adj UCA. Gonna be interesting.......

 

[Norm Peterson]

Yeah, I'll admit that I was 1 of those. This S197 is the 1st car I've owned that used a 3 link rear suspension so I wasn't familiar w\ it's design thus geometry so since I was initially thinking straight line performance I made all the upgrades to optimize for that but in the process I also started noticing the ride compliance degradation w\ rear suspension seeming to "stiffen up" in turns causing some quirkiness so it became a little unsettling to me to push into turns......

No shame in that.

Most people don't get paid to do computer modeling of structural systems (where you need to be aware of element stiffnesses other than against pure tensile or compressive loading and maybe simple-beam bending). Being able to visualize 3-D arcs is another skill that either comes from being paid to be a structural or mechanical engineer or is an attribute that engineering firms at least hope to find in their candidates.


Norm