FRPP 3V head data/opinions wanted

[Nuclear]

Hello all. I'm just fishing for a little input. Please feel free to add constructive input.

I have a 2006 3V that needs a little more horsepower. I have good headers, Detroit Rocker cams, a good tune, and a CAI. Current RWHP is 320. I am considering adding the FRPP CNC heads. Can my combination get to 360-ish by merely adding these heads (and the appropriate tune)? Do they really need the FRPP intake, or is that thing just a waste?

My goal is add horsepower WITHOUT a turbo or blower. And yes, I do realize that a "NA build" is not the most cost effective, but that's the path I want to go.

Again, all positive/constructive feedback is welcome. Anyone else out there in the same boat?

-Nick

 

[BruceH]

I've had a motor that made 337/299 na. It did have stock cats, flattop pistons, 127400 cams. Only the heads were changed to the frpp cnc heads. power went to 337/337. It picked up 38rwtq. I still wonder what I would of had with long tubes and more tuning knowledge. E85 power went from 347/301 to 347/347.

I'd suggest different cams and springs along with the heads and skip the frpp intake manifold for now. Or build a big bore motor.

 

[weather man]

The intake will help your peak number, but probably soften your bottom.

 

[skwerl]

On the FRPP CNC heads, there are two different styles. The 'stage 2' have stock valves and springs, ported and increase the combustion chamber from 51 to 53cc. This will lower compression slightly. The 'stage 3' heads have larger valves, heavier springs and the heads are shaved to reduce the combustion chamber to 49cc. This will increase compression slightly. They are also approximately twice as expensive as the stage 2 heads.

 

[Nuclear]

Also worth considering? Fox Lake ported cylinder heads?

 

[rojizostang]

i'm certainly no expert, but it seems the majority opinion (i think) is that the heads with the oversized valves aren't really beneficial unless you are going big bore at the same time. w/o the big bore, there isn't enough "unshrouding" of the larger valves to justify their expense.

just regurgitating what i've heard around here lol

after following Bruce's threads, and the cost involved, i think if i were going to do a build i would re-use my existing block and go for the 12 to 1 modmax pistons, and do perhaps a stage 2 set of heads and a cam swap away from the hot rods to something with more lift. Bruce has proven that running that kind of compression on the street with good tuning is do-able

he's my hero

 

[702GT]

Stock valve size is plenty for 281cid. I make 360whp on stock heads. Port matching and carefull porting of the stock heads with a big cam and high flowing intake manifold yield impressive results for a 281. I say stock valves and carefull porting because at 281cid you have to keep air velocity fairly high to increase power without adding cubes. If you overport or go bigger valves without increasing the hell out of your top rpm range you will lose velocity and not make gains. I rev to 6700 to make 360. She makes 370~ on 100 octane, but imo 10whp isn't worth the octane.

 

[GallopingFord]

Kooks LTS with Catted X
FRPP Manifold
FRPP TB
FRPP Hot Rod Cams
JLT 110mm Intake

353rwhp/325rwtq

Fox Lake is very good from what I've heard. I planned on using them to port my heads, but came up on another opportunity possibly.

 

[YoungBlood]

I thought that the frpp stage 2 heads had a stiffer spring not stock, is that incorrect? because I was thinking of doing a comp 127500 with those heads, if they have stock springs then screw that lol

 

[Marc s]

OP, I don't think you will get the 360whp with the Detroit Rockers. We have installed a few sets at the owners request and the hp gains for us have always been small in comparison to the FRPP HR cams.

I have a customers car that I have done a lot of work on. It has a stock short block, Kooks headers with cats, Hot Rod cams, FRPP manifold, JLT CAI, and the heads were ported by me with stock valves. It makes 363whp.

 

[BruceH]

I thought that the frpp stage 2 heads had a stiffer spring not stock, is that incorrect? because I was thinking of doing a comp 127500 with those heads, if they have stock springs then screw that lol

All the info is located at www.fordracingparts.com This was copied from that webpage.

Part Details

Hover over image to zoom
click to enlarge




4.6L/5.4L CNC PORTED 3V RH CYLINDER HEAD - ASSEMBLED
M-6049-N3VPA*
Suggested Retail Price
$998.95

Sold in Units of:
Each (1)


tech notes

• New production cylinder head casting
• No exchange required. Minimize your vehicle down time waiting for a shop to port your heads. Get a brand new head for a little more than the price of an exchange!

• CNC ported to increase flow and performance
• 53 cc combustion chamber (Stock head is 51 cc)
• Intake runner volume: 202cc (Stock 174cc)
• Exhaust runner volume: 73cc (Stock 62cc)
• Intake flow rate at .600 lift: 272 CFM
• Exhaust flow rate at .600 lift: 190 CFM
• Assembled with factory guides, production springs, valves, retainers, locks, and seals
• Does not include camshaft, followers, and hydraulic lash adjusters
• Use head changing kit M-6067-3V46.
• Requires 2008-2010 12 MM spark plugs
• Heads will fit early cars originally equipped with "High thread" design spark plugs. Spark plugs M-12405-3V12MM and ignition coils M-12029-3V recommended.

Note: Engines with late style 12MM spark plugs can be identified by coil engineering number 8L3E Engines with early style 16mm "High Thread" design spark plugs can be identified by coil engineering number 3L3E part number.

​

specs

Package Dimensions:
9 x 11 x 21

Package Weight:
36.8 lbs

Part Type:
Engine: Cylinder Heads

Instruction Sheet:
Not Available

Warranty Availability:
Not Available

Country of Origin:
United States

UPC Code:
756122014554

Catalog Page Number:
103

Livernois does the cnc work on these heads. I'm unsure of who does final assembly but Livernois sells the same heads with upgraded springs.

You can buy trick flow springs for $200 and rent the tool for another $50. It's not to bad of a job on the bench.

 

[Nuclear]

Thanks for the input guys...

 

[jmauld]

What I think is more important to note about the stage 2 heads is that they increase the combustion chamber. So, with no other changes you will reduce your compression ratio. The voice in my head tells me to pass up the FRPP stage 2 heads because of this. At least, if you're talking about a mild N/A build

 

[RED09GT]

What I think is more important to note about the stage 2 heads is that they increase the combustion chamber. So, with no other changes you will reduce your compression ratio. The voice in my head tells me to pass up the FRPP stage 2 heads because of this. At least, if you're talking about a mild N/A build

Surfacing a pair of heads costs ~$100-$150 so you can gain back some of the compression as long as you are comfortable with disassembling them and re-assembling them after.

 

[BruceH]

What I think is more important to note about the stage 2 heads is that they increase the combustion chamber. So, with no other changes you will reduce your compression ratio. The voice in my head tells me to pass up the FRPP stage 2 heads because of this. At least, if you're talking about a mild N/A build

It's not a whole lot. I lost about .24 with my stock stroke motor. It went from 11 to 10.76. I'd much rather have the increased flow and open area around the valves than stock heads and a quarter point of compression.

Edit: My current motor comes up at 12.09 with the cnc 53cc heads vs 12.41 with the stock 51.3cc heads.

 

[jmauld]

Surfacing a pair of heads costs ~$100-$150 so you can gain back some of the compression as long as you are comfortable with disassembling them and re-assembling them after.

How much surfacing can you get away with before there is an issue?

It's not a whole lot. I lost about .24 with my stock stroke motor. It went from 11 to 10.76. I'd much rather have the increased flow and open area around the valves than stock heads and a quarter point of compression.

Edit: My current motor comes up at 12.09 with the cnc 53cc heads vs 12.41 with the stock 51.3cc heads.

Ahhh. Well I agree, that's probably not enough to worry about.

 

[RED09GT]

How much surfacing can you get away with before there is an issue?

I wish I knew...
I seem to remember reading that the Livernois stage 3 heads have 0.012 shaved to get the chambers to 49cc and there would be no problem with the chain tensioners taking up 0.012" of slack.
If you have pistons with the correct 3v valve reliefs and didn't have huge duration cams, it would stand to reason that you could go further.

 

[WARstang]

Didn't we just go through all of this.... In the tiger guy's thread?? OP use the search feature.

 

[a-train]

Kooks LTS with Catted X
FRPP Manifold
FRPP TB
FRPP Hot Rod Cams
JLT 110mm Intake

353rwhp/325rwtq

Fox Lake is very good from what I've heard. I planned on using them to port my heads, but came up on another opportunity possibly.

Who tuned your car?

 

[Nuclear]

WARstang: Actually, YES, I did use the search feature. I didn't find exactly what I was looking for, so I started another thread. Please forgive me if my "search skills" aren't as good as some other members. My thread is simply another conversation. If you are unhappy with my repetitive question, than all you have to do is ignore it. No post needed from you. We are all forum members who enjoy conversing about our cars. There is no need for you to be one of those "use-the-search-feature" Nazis.