Modding a 4.6 vs a Coyote

[Riptide]

doesn't really seem to be worth the hassle of another car note, or an expensive powerplant swap

The first couple years people were boosting the coyote cars it seemed like the sky was the limit. 700hp wasn't uncommon at all. It took a while and then they started blowing up more often. Now the "safe limit" has come down quite a bit it seems like. Has taken the wind out of my sails somewhat but considering the extra work I needed to do on the 3v to get it where I wanted it was still worth it to sell and do the switch. At least this car doesn't have some crap 3650 and a portable nuclear reactor aka KB 2.6 to have to replace.

 

[foxxxtman]

You do have somewhat of a point on the 3650, I still have a little testing to do but after I supercharged my car it seemed to be really hard to shift from 2 to 3 under max load at the strip. I do have stock motor mounts though and haven't put a che brace on. I guess the engine/transmission twisting some for lack of the above pieces makes the remote shifter arm push to the wrong place? I guess there is a slight chance that my shifter could have been loose because at a later date I lost the front bolt/bushings from the front arm but I've since put that back in and tightened it down good, haven't had it back to the track just yet. The 6060 does away with the whole remote shift linkage set-up though and isn't as vulnerable to twisting. Other than that my 3650 has been very good.

 

[fdjizm]

6060 definitely has linkage, it just has two arms.
Best thing I did for shifting was poly motor mounts & che limiters.
Oh and the wotbox on the 3650!, without the wotbox EVERY gear would grind at wot shifting.
Now it's just smooth as butter.

 

[skwerl]

You do have somewhat of a point on the 3650, I still have a little testing to do but after I supercharged my car it seemed to be really hard to shift from 2 to 3 under max load at the strip. I do have stock motor mounts though and haven't put a che brace on. I guess the engine/transmission twisting some for lack of the above pieces makes the remote shifter arm push to the wrong place? I guess there is a slight chance that my shifter could have been loose because at a later date I lost the front bolt/bushings from the front arm but I've since put that back in and tightened it down good, haven't had it back to the track just yet. The 6060 does away with the whole remote shift linkage set-up though and isn't as vulnerable to twisting. Other than that my 3650 has been very good.

The bolded part is incorrect. You may be confusing the 6060 with the new T56 Magnum. The 6060 uses a remote shifter similar to the 3650. The T56 Magnum is the gold standard for S197 manual transmissions.

 

[stkjock]

There are a few upgrades to the 6060 set up that make them shift like bullet proof.

MGW shifter and upgrade soild bushings.

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106683

 

[foxxxtman]

6060 definitely has linkage, it just has two arms.
Best thing I did for shifting was poly motor mounts & che limiters.
Oh and the wotbox on the 3650!, without the wotbox EVERY gear would grind at wot shifting.
Now it's just smooth as butter.

My apologies on the 6060, I didn't mean to post something incorrect and must have gotten mixed up. What's this WOTBOX you speak of? New motor mounts and the CHE brace are definitely in my future though, I know I have needed them and just haven't done it. I don't drag it often so I keep forgetting I need to do it lol.

 

[hamish]

6060 definitely has linkage, it just has two arms.
Best thing I did for shifting was poly motor mounts & che limiters.
Oh and the wotbox on the 3650!, without the wotbox EVERY gear would grind at wot shifting.
Now it's just smooth as butter.

I did all of those and It was definitely better.
Close to $500 just to get the thing to shift right.

 

[skwerl]

Every time I tried to make my 3650 better it just got worse instead. Very happy with the T56, completely changed the entire feel of the car. And it will handle whatever horsepower I want to throw at it.

 

[stang910]

Trade your car in on a 2011+ car. I've been down the built 3V road and it just doesn't compare to what I have now. Yes you can make a 3V a fast car, but it's alot harder, more expensive, and in the end you'll still be chasing something that you would have already accomplished with a coyote.

I know I may sound like a 3V hater, but I've put a ton of money in a 3V and loved that car, but when you start modding a coyote it becomes clear very fast why everyone jumps on the coyote bandwagon. Your not deep in mods on your car right now so cut any losses now and start fresh and you'll be happier in the end.

 

[retfr8flyr]

OP I will throw my 2¢ in here. I would recommend you first deciding how much you want to spend on this build. Look at either doing your block with the stock crank, a good set of pistons and rods as the budget option. I have never figured out the hardon everyone has for a 5.0 stroker setup. Boosted it will hardly make more then a 4.6 setup and the RA is very expensive. If you want to build a stroker then use the Boss block and go for the 323. With the 323 you will actually have something to show for all the extra money. Anything more then about 600rwhp on the street really isn't fun to drive. You can easily make more then that building your current engine.

One of the advantages of getting the 323 setup is down time on your ride. You can have everything ready to go and just pull your stock engine out, clean up the heads, possibly do a valve job on them, put everything back together and your ready to go. Building your own block entails lots of down time as everything gets machined and built. Just factors to consider.


Earl

 

[hamish]

^ For a time there the Stroker kits were priced the same as Forged stock dimensions.
i understand alot about the concept of oversquared/ undersquared but there is always someone doing the opposite and making great power too.
Two different theories lots of success from both camps.
And I wholeheartedly agree that the op should have that budget in front of him and be realistic and honest with what he is trying to accomplish.
Good luck op, lots of good advice here.

 

[Riptide]

Yes you can make a 3V a fast car, but it's alot harder, more expensive, and in the end you'll still be chasing something that you would have already accomplished with a coyote.

The "danger zone" for the stock bottom on the two cars is only about 100hp or so apart give or take. To me that isn't some screamingly huge difference. I know that's peak power and the 5.0 will rev out higher. But still... If you want truly big power you're going to be building the engine in either one.

 

[blownGTvert]

The "danger zone" for the stock bottom on the two cars is only about 100hp or so apart give or take. To me that isn't some screamingly huge difference. I know that's peak power and the 5.0 will rev out higher. But still... If you want truly big power you're going to be building the engine in either one.

Not to mention that MT82 trans, rear end, fuel system, etc, in the coyote must be upgraded as well. Its really no different when modding other than the ~ 100hp coyote advantage over a stock 3V. So if you already have a built/boosted 3V does it make any sense to start over???

 

[Raeko]

The coyote would be a nice start but I feel if u are invested in the 3v you can't go wrong forged. I will be in the process of a build myself shortly on my 3v

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[fdjizm]

ALOT harder to make a 3v faster than a coyote? where did that info come from LOL someone ignoring all the high horsepower 3v's.

 

[BruceH]

Trade your car in on a 2011+ car. I've been down the built 3V road and it just doesn't compare to what I have now. Yes you can make a 3V a fast car, but it's alot harder, more expensive, and in the end you'll still be chasing something that you would have already accomplished with a coyote.

I know I may sound like a 3V hater, but I've put a ton of money in a 3V and loved that car, but when you start modding a coyote it becomes clear very fast why everyone jumps on the coyote bandwagon. Your not deep in mods on your car right now so cut any losses now and start fresh and you'll be happier in the end.

It depends on the hp level imo. If you want big hp then the 3v is the way to go unless you don't want to use a stock block with the 5.0. The cylinder sleeves have started to break at around 750rwhp on some motors.

The 3v block will handle pretty much whatever is thrown at it. Superchargers and turbos are cheaper for a 3v. If you are talking na then the coyote is the way to go. It takes a significant investment to make the little 4.6 make power. I tried a few variations and finally put a 5.3 big bore in to get where I wanted to be.

I do have a 6060 in mine. I don't think that's an option for the coyote. The only manual 5.0 I'd get would be a Boss. Otherwise it would have to be the excellent auto.

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer for hp. My 2008 looks good from the front and back.

 

[05stroker]

ALOT harder to make a 3v faster than a coyote? where did that info come from LOL someone ignoring all the high horsepower 3v's.

In N/A form the Coyote is bad ass, but when boosted and in the mid boost levels like 15 psi things start to even out and then in the higher boost levels I will keep my 3v with the c/r raised and some ported heads.

What does a 5.0 with the water jacket mod and forged make at 20 psi?

 

[Department Of Boost]

In N/A form the Coyote is bad ass, but when boosted and in the mid boost levels like 15 psi things start to even out and then in the higher boost levels I will keep my 3v with the c/r raised and some ported heads.

What does a 5.0 with the water jacket mod and forged make at 20 psi?

I think there are too many variables to be able to answer that. 93 vs. 93? e85 vs. 85? Blown? Centri? Twin screw? Turbo? Auto? manual?

My wild ass guess is that a 3v vs. a Coyote all things being equal at 20psi would be really close to the same. Boost is the great equalizer. Two motors with roughly the same displacement and the same amount of air getting forced in will make roughly the same power.

Now there is one variable that throws the displacement/boost equation and that is RPM's. If one motor revs to 7,000rpm and the other to 10,000 the one that is spinning to 10K will make more peak power.....assuming the blower/turbo can keep up.

I wouldn't pull a 3v to put a Coyote in unless I was building a roadrace car and I wanted to stay NA, light and cool. When it comes to making big power (750+) I'm just fine sticking with the 3v, pouring the boost in there and letting it eat.

And don't forget kids, I have a Coyote car too. I'm about as unbiased as it gets.

 

[05stroker]

I think there are too many variables to be able to answer that. 93 vs. 93? e85 vs. 85? Blown? Centri? Twin screw? Turbo? Auto? manual?

My wild ass guess is that a 3v vs. a Coyote all things being equal at 20psi would be really close to the same. Boost is the great equalizer. Two motors with roughly the same displacement and the same amount of air getting forced in will make roughly the same power.

Now there is one variable that throws the displacement/boost equation and that is RPM's. If one motor revs to 7,000rpm and the other to 10,000 the one that is spinning to 10K will make more peak power.....assuming the blower/turbo can keep up.

I wouldn't pull a 3v to put a Coyote in unless I was building a roadrace car and I wanted to stay NA, light and cool. When it comes to making big power (750+) I'm just fine sticking with the 3v, pouring the boost in there and letting it eat.

And don't forget kids, I have a Coyote car too. I'm about as unbiased as it gets.

That's what I was thinking. When it gets to the 750-800 rwhp range I think they even out a bit. Think about it this way though, stetch ran a 9.27 to my 9.38 with 14-16 psi turbo vrs my 20 psi centri and my car was heavier by at least 300 lb. At this level there seems to be a 4-5 psi difference on the same power. It is from 15 psi up where things seem to become more equal. IMO

Where the coyote shines is at the 8, 10, and 12 psi over the 3v. They make insane numbers for the low boost. I think due to better flowing heads and the VCT on the 5.0.

 

[lito]

My wild ass guess is that a 3v vs. a Coyote all things being equal at 20psi would be really close to the same. Boost is the great equalizer. Two motors with roughly the same displacement and the same amount of air getting forced in will make roughly the same power.

Not really. A 20psi coyote will out power a 20psi 3v.

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