Noise: Dealer says motor! WTF!?!

ClassJ

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Here are my thoughts... dealers are for selling cars, not working on them. Ever. Period

AMEN!!! Not to get OT. But even when I think I can trust a dealer to do a simple job on my daily driver they screw it up. I brought in my 05 jeep for shocks under warrentee. They put them in. Car was making a noise. I brought it back, it is still there. I just got the car home and took a look. Whatdoyaknow. They installed the strut bearing clocked wrong compared to the body and the shock shaft is rubbing. Gotta love it.
 

SoundGuyDave

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Okay, a few updates...

First, it's NOT accessory-drive related. I pulled the belt, pulled the fuse on the water pump, and it's still there. I got a buddy to put a fresh set of ears on the car, and he pulled the oil-fill cap, and the noise is positively louder coming from the opening, particularly when the engine is held above 3000 rpm. Any mod motor guys have any ideas? The noise itself sounds like a bearing or pump whine/moan, but I can't think of what that could be in that area of the engine. Oil is NOT showing signs of any shavings, but I don't want to drive it until this gets sussed out, for fear of completely grenading the motor, which I am NOT finanacially in a position to replace out of pocket at the moment. I really think this is a Ford problem, but I want to have all my ducks in a row before I go that route. OTOH, if it's something relatively inexpensive and simple, like a phasor or something going bad, I wouldn't object to just fixing it and being done with it.

Do you fine folks think that pulling the front cover for a look-see would be worth it, or inviting more issues with Ford?
 

cekim

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Do you fine folks think that pulling the front cover for a look-see would be worth it, or inviting more issues with Ford?
Definitely inviting issues - I would press Ford first if it is still under warranty and don't take "under drive pulleys" for an answer unless it is an alternator issue...

If you want Ford to pay for this - you should press them first before giving them more excuses to deny you...

As for the noise coming from the oil fill - I'd compare to another stang if you can - from working with those parts, I can imagine a pretty good amount of noise coming from there normally...
 

SoundGuyDave

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On this particular issue, there's no point in comparing to another 'stang... This is definitely a failure-mode issue. At startup and during the warm-up cycle, there is an almost inaudible moan/whine sound, and at first, during normal low-load driving, the sound is still there, but hard to pick out over the cacophony of the normal exhaust (headers, ORH, resonators, Flowmasters) and the suspension noise. Get on the car, however, for example, accelerating smartly up a highway ramp to merge speed, and the noise rises in volume sharply, to sound almost like a centrifigul supercharger, which from the last look under the hood, I'm pretty sure I don't have.... When the noise is loud, you can feel it pretty much throughout the car, and it does sound like it's coming from forward of the front seats. After you get off the loud pedal, the noise slowly fades back to a more background noise. By the time I can get the car slowed down and the hood popped, the noise has kind of receded into the background again, and under the hood is fairly well masked by the normal injector chatter and valvetrain noise.

As I said, it's not an accessory-drive issue, since I've run the car completely without a belt, so that leaves out the AC compressor, ps pump, alt, and all the idlers. It almost sounds to me like a trans does when it's low on fluid, but the car doesn't chatter in and out of neutral under high G-load activity, so it's probably not that, either.

I will happily accept responsibility for my actions (installing or misinstalling aftermarket parts), but if this is a warrantable failure, then I would really not want to dig into my pocket for an engine, which is what I fear it would be if I let this go too long, or drive the car hard until the issue is resolved.

I think I'm going to have to just run the car from dealer to dealer, until I can find one that will give me the time of day on this issue. I would go straight to Sutton, but they're 70 miles or so away, and with my luck, the engine would let go completely halfway there...
 

Hawgman

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you dont have an auto do you?

Yes he does.




I would definitely do like cekim says and press the issue with Ford. Underdrive pulleys are NOT going to cause an internal issue.
 

matt texass

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dang this sounds very similar to my issue. It is most apparent on decel and very apparent at crusiing speeds with the radio off and windows up. I described my noise to ford as an electric fuel pump or a "spooling" sound. My is most def. coming from the tranny. If you get under the car it becomes very apparent. The guys at ford agree with me and have ordered a new trans for it. The catch is they have to come from Canada and all they know is that its shipped from that plant they don't know where in the country it is or if it has passed customs yet. So I continue to sit here and wait while my car sits and the dealership. They already replaced the gears in the trans and the front pump and that did not fix anything.
 

SoundGuyDave

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Yeah, tomorrow morning I'm going to call one supposedly "mod friendly" dealer in the area (recommended by the service manager of yet another dealership) and see what they have to say. Failing that, it looks like either Sutton, or I go to war with Ford and my local dealer. I really don't want to do that. Sum total of what I have on the car, in terms of powertrain and driveline mods:

C&L racer and Bama tunes (awesome!)
Steeda billet CMCV delete plates
Mezeire H2O pump*
Roush underdrive crank pulley
American Racing headers, off-road H, SLP resonators, Flowmaster A/Bs*
Spydershaft
FRPP 3.73 gear set
Steeda valve covers*
Stef's oil separator*
PipeLine billet oil/coolant block adapter with remote FL1A filter*

That's it. No cams, no heads, nothing done to the shortblock or the trans at all. All just bolt-on pieces. Items marked with a * are new during the winter, but I still can't see ANY of it causing any sort of internal issue anywhere in the long-block assembly. Oh, and before you ask, no, there are no fluid leaks anywhere, and the car has just over 14,000 on the clock, has always been garaged, and was in heated storage over the winter. Everything else I've done is engine-bay bling, bodywork, brakes or suspension...
 

SoundGuyDave

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Matt, what do you have on the car? My original suspicion was trans, either the fluid level being low, or the pump failing, or the torque converter bearings failing. The first dealer's "trans guy" said it was engine-related, so... Any info you could send me in terms of what your dealer said diagnostically would be a big help in my upcoming fight...

God, I love this forum... People that actually know what they're talking about and want to help. Novel freaking concept...
 

matt texass

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my ordeal started back in december. I have lt's 410's spydershaft jlt and tune, cmcv deletes and udp's. I have since pulled the lt's off. I got my gears replaced thinking they were the problem. Then took it to the first dealer. Took them awhile to figure out where the noise was coming from. They thought motor as well but ended up replacing all the gears in the trans. That didn't fix it so I took it to a dealership that a buddy of mine works at. He said it doesn't do it in neutral and his trans guy was talking to him about how the internals of this trans suck. He said his trans guy said that there is a front hub in there that pushes the clutches together that is a cast piece and most likely cracked. He also said the line pressure was out the roof ( i have no idea if that means anything). And so as of a 2 weeks ago when they ordered the trans I'm still here waiting.
 

SoundGuyDave

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Hmmm... did you pull the LT's for warranty issues, or for some reason of your own choosing? I could pull mine, but you know how much of a PITA that is... Mine also makes the noise in neutral and park, as well... Looks like I need to do some more research on the 5R55 internals, and see if I can start pointing at possible failure points by part number...
 

matt texass

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pulled them off cause i thought i was going back to stock to sell the car.............. but when i pulled them off it got quite and I could hear this noise.
 

Hawgman

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Dave, you've got mail.
 

SoundGuyDave

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Fuck it, I think I'll pull mine too, and have Doug write me a quick tune for just the gears, and stock trans settings. I still have the stock airbox, CMCV gear, etc, but I can't find the stock balancer.
 

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