Comprehensive IC Water Pump/System Test Data

[travelers]

For the guys that have this 2013 GT500 pump. Did you order the mounting and support brackets as well? These are the 3 listed at tascaparts.com


DR3Z-8N500-B SUPPORT BRACKET, RIGHT
5.8 LITER
$19.93 $13.75
9 DR3Z-8N500-C SUPPORT BRACKET, LEFT
5.8 LITER
$12.45 $8.59
10 DR3Z-8N500-A MOUNT BRACKET
5.8 LITER
$35.52 $24.51

I did but haven't had any time to see if and where it fits.

 

[drive_55_not]

This was from the lingenfelter website....

"Stewart EMP E2512A DC brushless intercooler pump that is reprogrammed by LPE to raise the current & pump RPM limit.

This advanced computer controlled electric water pump can flow 25 gallons per minute @ 12 amps utilizes 1 inch inlet and outlets."

That seems to be close to what you recorded with the 1.25" lines? Bigger hose means less amp draw due to lower restriction?

I finally got around to installing a regular fleet 12v-25amp version of the WP29 pump I picked up a while back, I spliced in some 1" hose to the existing 3/4" using 1"-to-3/4" schedule 40 barbs.

Good news it only pulls 6.5 amps. Running it and the IC fans together pulls 12 amps. Kinda hard to tell as my old Bosch pump was dying but it looks like it's moving roughly twice what a new Bosch pump would flow.

I bent a piece of 3/16" flat steel bar for the the mount and put it on the passenger side in front of the washer fluid bottle ..

Not the prettiest install but it should work well enough for me.

 

[Saleen304]

You need to get that puppy programmed and then you will really know what flow is. You will be pulling 20+ amps, but it's worth it.

 

[weather man]

You need to get that puppy programmed and then you will really know what flow is. You will be pulling 20+ amps, but it's worth it.

That 12 amp number from lingenfelter with 1 inch line might not be far off.

 

[DiMora]

DOB, when does yours hit the market?

 

[Department Of Boost]

I finally got around to installing a regular fleet 12v-25amp version of the WP29 pump I picked up a while back, I spliced in some 1" hose to the existing 3/4" using 1"-to-3/4" schedule 40 barbs.

Good news it only pulls 6.5 amps. Running it and the IC fans together pulls 12 amps. Kinda hard to tell as my old Bosch pump was dying but it looks like it's moving roughly twice what a new Bosch pump would flow.

I bent a piece of 3/16" flat steel bar for the the mount and put it on the passenger side in front of the washer fluid bottle ..

Not the prettiest install but it should work well enough for me.

They tested on a ZL1 system though, which is more restrictive. If you extrapolate the numbers you're looking at about 7gpm on your system though.

I'm pretty sure you can get your pump re-programmed though. That would get you about 10-11gpm depending on what blower you're running on.

 

[Department Of Boost]

DOB, when does yours hit the market?

Stewart has a strange dealer buy in structure that would involve me buying/stocking over $10K in pumps at all times. I am unfortunately not in a position to tie that sort of capitol up on pumps with low margins. I'm still trying to work something out but it may end up we don't sell them and just refer people to Stewart.

 

[v6tungsten]

Stewart has a strange dealer buy in structure that would involve me buying/stocking over $10K in pumps at all times. I am unfortunately not in a position to tie that sort of capitol up on pumps with low margins. I'm still trying to work something out but it may end up we don't sell them and just refer people to Stewart.

well you have probably answered this before but would the stewart be worth it for a saleen supercharger? looking at the 13/14 or stewart and there is only a .8 difference on flow @ .75 ic.

13/14 pump can be purchased for about $200
Stewart is over $500

 

[Department Of Boost]

well you have probably answered this before but would the stewart be worth it for a saleen supercharger? looking at the 13/14 or stewart and there is only a .8 difference on flow @ .75 ic.

13/14 pump can be purchased for about $200
Stewart is over $500

The GT500 pump would be a smarter buy.

Where have you seen them for $200?

 

[v6tungsten]

Ebay item 301673127840 $209 with $9 expedite shipping

 

[Department Of Boost]

Ebay item 301673127840 $209 with $9 expedite shipping

Ahhh, the CWA50. That's SUPPOSED to be the exact same pump. I haven't tested it though so I can't be 100% sure.

Don't forget you will need a pigtail too. You can use the one that they have listed but that one is a bit goofy. This one is a lot nicer and plugs directly into the BOSCH plug.

http://www.tascaparts.com/oe-ford/dr3z14a411c

 

[hamish]

well you have probably answered this before but would the stewart be worth it for a saleen supercharger? looking at the 13/14 or stewart and there is only a .8 difference on flow @ .75 ic.

13/14 pump can be purchased for about $200
Stewart is over $500

That saleen intercooler has a fitting i.d. of 0.55", incase you didn't know.

 

[v6tungsten]

That good news...I thought it was .40.

 

[hamish]

Can you release some dimensional info on your heat exchanger?
I've got some time to rearrange some things behind the bumper in preperation for the new system.

 

[NUTCASE]

I think the to fast flow argument is missing the factors of time and what max heat soak is for that system.

If you had a small HE but tried to compensate with a huge flow pump you could pass the limit of how much heat the HE can dissipate.

You might still show slightly more power because fluids tend to have a higher heat capacity as temperature increases. So long as the temp at your IC is significantly higher than the temp at your HE you will be ok. But overall IMO a super flow pump should not be your first move.

Really the bigger deal here is having a HE that is either up to the task, or oversized. Otherwise increasing flow will have diminishing returns as you get to the upper end of the specturm

Sorry not dropping all the math right now.

Also I could tell you how to find the flow of a pump. Get 2 buckets, a tube, a stopwatch, and some water.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I big HE is always the best first step. But even the biggest HE's aren't big enough. So the next step is water flow.

If you had a small HE but tried to compensate with a huge flow pump you could pass the limit of how much heat the HE can dissipate.

As far as this goes all HE's are too small. Once you get the biggest one you can stuff in there it all comes down to water flow.

Realistically you can't surpass how much heat the HE can reject. As the water in the HE get's hotter it transfers heat faster. Yeah, at some point way out there in fantasy land you could run 211deg water through the HE and that would be the limit of how much heat it could reject. But you never get even in the same galaxy as that. The highest water temp I have ever seen was 125deg and that was on a 100deg day at the road course with a car running 19lb of boost. So pretty much as bad as that gets.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Can you release some dimensional info on your heat exchanger?

I haven't decided on a core yet. That will be in the next few weeks.

It's going to be the absolute biggest thing you can stuff in there though. So that's pretty easy.

It will be triple pass.

I've got some time to rearrange some things behind the bumper in preperation for the new system.

You won't need to move anything except maybe the power steering "cooler". That may have to be snuck in between the A/C condenser and the rad. I've done it a few times, it's easy.

 

[eighty6gt]

I just mounted a trick little derale cooler and used a/n fittings with braided line bodged onto the factory nipples. My stock ps cooler was leaking.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I just mounted a trick little derale cooler and used a/n fittings with braided line bodged onto the factory nipples. My stock ps cooler was leaking.

I ended up doing the same thing. That stock "cooler" is just plain silly.

 

[Racer47]

I found a lot of info on IC pumps at a Mercedes forum. There are a couple good threads and a flow chart comparing 18 pumps.

It seems that the GT500 pump (Pierburg CWA50) has a bigger version Pierburg CWA100.2 that seems popular with the Mecedes crowd. It sells for $375 and is the same pump Renntech (mercedes perf shop) uses for supercharger upgrades.

http://www.oemercedesbenzparts.com/...6?origin=pla&gclid=CLj0gd6N6csCFYY2gQodu-UHrw

Thread on pumps

http://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/411058-intercooler-pump-you-didn-t-know-about.html

More info on pumps, HE's and pump flow

http://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...oolers-heat-exchangers-circulation-pumps.html

Here is a quote with a good summary.....

There are some long-established golden rules for installing (centrifugal) pumps, including:
• The pump inlet pressure should be as high as possible.
• Therefore the pump should be located at the lowest point in the system.
• Locate the pump after the radiator, to keep it as cool as possible.
• Mount the pump horizontally, to minimise bearing end loads.
• To avoid air locks, the outlet should be at the top of the pump, and must not point down.
• The pump's pressure/flow characteristics should be matched to the system resistance curve to achieve best performance.
• Don't run a pump into an excessively high or low resistance, or it will fail quickly.
• Keep air and contaminants out of the system.
• Finally - feed the pump from the BOTTOM of the radiator, to minimise air ingestion.
---------------------

I also attached the pump flow chart.

I was just going to buy the GT500 pump for $275 from Tasca but maybe its worth the extra 100 and go with the bigger pump from Mercedes.