Proper use of these and other sorts of boots and spherical seals is really to keep grease from being worn away. If you use these, please fill them with grease. Othewise they trap water and grit next to the bearing and cause even faster wear.
BMR Watts Link - Teaser
- Thread starter BMR Tech
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Proper use of these and other sorts of boots and spherical seals is really to keep grease from being worn away. If you use these, please fill them with grease. Othewise they trap water and grit next to the bearing and cause even faster wear.
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
No. A Watts link won't generate the same kind of loading that you weld the tubes for.
Norm
Norm
Damn! I'm gone for a week, and miss all the good stuff!
Looks like Dylan is busy posting away under my username! Tricky tricky...
The only time you would ever grease a bearing is if it is designed to be greased, or rather - a metal to metal style bearing.
It is not a good idea to lubricate a teflon / kevlar insert spherical bearing with "grease" of any sort. Doing so is a quick way to build up excessive contamination, and it will cause premature lining failure.
I have had excellent results with the RERS3 boots that Dylan posted above. They definitely help keep contamination and water away, and also help with the ever-so-common clunk that people get when running a dual bearing pivot point, as they help keep the bearing indexed. Even when the bearing moves out of it's 12/6 orientation, the boots cushion the contact between the bearing race and the sleeve spacers or bolts.
Looks like Dylan is busy posting away under my username! Tricky tricky...
The only time you would ever grease a bearing is if it is designed to be greased, or rather - a metal to metal style bearing.
It is not a good idea to lubricate a teflon / kevlar insert spherical bearing with "grease" of any sort. Doing so is a quick way to build up excessive contamination, and it will cause premature lining failure.
I have had excellent results with the RERS3 boots that Dylan posted above. They definitely help keep contamination and water away, and also help with the ever-so-common clunk that people get when running a dual bearing pivot point, as they help keep the bearing indexed. Even when the bearing moves out of it's 12/6 orientation, the boots cushion the contact between the bearing race and the sleeve spacers or bolts.
I am still awaiting a customer to come in and test fit it.
SoundGuyDave
This Space For Rent
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Man, that is AWESOME that you sent that from your SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk! [/sarcasm]
Seriously, PLEASE edit your signature file!
Not sure if you guys saw, but the Poly/Bearing and the Bearing/Bearing versions are on the site now. 
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&vehicleid=1&maincatid=21&catid=418
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&vehicleid=1&maincatid=21&catid=418
Kelly, from someone who has to write instructions for products: good instructions.
A couple questions.
- If clearance is tight for installing the watts pivot point at certain settings, why not install the pivot and linkages onto the hole of choosing before even putting the brace in? The linkages can just dangle until needed. Do you need to pick a pivot hole based once the brace is installed based on having linkages parallel to the ground?
- If the rear of my car (frame) is on jack stands and I'm using a digital level for the brackets, wont the car being at an angle mess with the bracket to pavement 90 degree relationship? Does the car need to be level?
- My car is lowered around 1.6", any pivot hole suggestions?
A couple questions.
- If clearance is tight for installing the watts pivot point at certain settings, why not install the pivot and linkages onto the hole of choosing before even putting the brace in? The linkages can just dangle until needed. Do you need to pick a pivot hole based once the brace is installed based on having linkages parallel to the ground?
- If the rear of my car (frame) is on jack stands and I'm using a digital level for the brackets, wont the car being at an angle mess with the bracket to pavement 90 degree relationship? Does the car need to be level?
- My car is lowered around 1.6", any pivot hole suggestions?
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Boaisy
Dark Knight
I believe the links have to be parallel when the suspension is loaded on the ground (part of the reasoning why you can't just pick a pivot hole and wish good luck). I could be wrong.
Because there are multiple mounting points on the axle clamps/brackets, you can make the linkages parallel with multiple different center pivot locations. The instructions have you installing the pivot point, then installing the clamp brackets, then preloading the suspension to install the linkages parallel using the corresponding mounting point on the clamp brackets,
claudermilk
Senior Member
I was wondering the same thing. Then thought, if there's any doubt, throw the angle gauge on the chassis (probably underside of the sills) and get a reading of the angle the car is sitting at. Then calculate 90 degrees from that fort the necessary reading on the brackets.
I like that the outer sides of the arms have multiple mount points to match the center. I don't think anyone else has done that to maintain the arms being level.
Kelly, from someone who has to write instructions for products: good instructions.
Thank you sir! I will be sure to tell our Instruction guy that he finally did a great job! lol..
A couple questions.
- If clearance is tight for installing the watts pivot point at certain settings, why not install the pivot and linkages onto the hole of choosing before even putting the brace in? The linkages can just dangle until needed. Do you need to pick a pivot hole based once the brace is installed based on having linkages parallel to the ground?
I mean, you can do it however you want. That is not a bad idea, at all.
It is a good idea to pick positions that make the links as parallel as possible....but it's okay not to split hairs and over think/do it. They just need to be close.
- If the rear of my car (frame) is on jack stands and I'm using a digital level for the brackets, wont the car being at an angle mess with the bracket to pavement 90 degree relationship? Does the car need to be level?
Basically, you want to simulate ride height as much as you can. Slight variations are not going to hurt the installation.
The best method in terms of ease and simplicity, when using the instructions to set the axle mounts to 0 degrees is to do this with the car on ramps, or a drive on lift. The way the Watts was designed and built, the majority of the time, you will end up having the axle mounts at 0 degrees at ride height/angle.
The best method period - is to perform this install on ramps or drive on lift....measure the angle of the actual chassis mount center plate....and match that angle on the axle mount double shear mounting points (not the actual mounts per the instructions, but the actual mounting tabs that bolt to the axle mounts)
- My car is lowered around 1.6", any pivot hole suggestions?
It is really going to come down to your preference. What we like, may not be what you like. At 1.5" drop...On a slick and tight course, I came up with a decently stiff rear bar rate, and the lower positions on this Watts system.
I noticed that the lower RC position, I liked a stiffer bar. On the higher RC positions, the bar rate was not as noticeable to me. Of course, everyone is different.
I would say, if you have a stock rear bar - start up top...and work down.
Thank you sir! I will be sure to tell our Instruction guy that he finally did a great job! lol..
A couple questions.
- If clearance is tight for installing the watts pivot point at certain settings, why not install the pivot and linkages onto the hole of choosing before even putting the brace in? The linkages can just dangle until needed. Do you need to pick a pivot hole based once the brace is installed based on having linkages parallel to the ground?
I mean, you can do it however you want. That is not a bad idea, at all.
It is a good idea to pick positions that make the links as parallel as possible....but it's okay not to split hairs and over think/do it. They just need to be close.
- If the rear of my car (frame) is on jack stands and I'm using a digital level for the brackets, wont the car being at an angle mess with the bracket to pavement 90 degree relationship? Does the car need to be level?
Basically, you want to simulate ride height as much as you can. Slight variations are not going to hurt the installation.
The best method in terms of ease and simplicity, when using the instructions to set the axle mounts to 0 degrees is to do this with the car on ramps, or a drive on lift. The way the Watts was designed and built, the majority of the time, you will end up having the axle mounts at 0 degrees at ride height/angle.
The best method period - is to perform this install on ramps or drive on lift....measure the angle of the actual chassis mount center plate....and match that angle on the axle mount double shear mounting points (not the actual mounts per the instructions, but the actual mounting tabs that bolt to the axle mounts)
- My car is lowered around 1.6", any pivot hole suggestions?
It is really going to come down to your preference. What we like, may not be what you like. At 1.5" drop...On a slick and tight course, I came up with a decently stiff rear bar rate, and the lower positions on this Watts system.
I noticed that the lower RC position, I liked a stiffer bar. On the higher RC positions, the bar rate was not as noticeable to me. Of course, everyone is different.
I would say, if you have a stock rear bar - start up top...and work down.
This makes sense to me, good idea.
I noticed that the lower RC position, I liked a stiffer bar. On the higher RC positions, the bar rate was not as noticeable to me. Of course, everyone is different.
I would say, if you have a stock rear bar - start up top...and work down.
Understood that a low RC would pair well with someone running (and thus wanting) more rear bar given the characteristics of how the RC effects things (reducing distance between Center of Gravity to Roll Center (roll couple) causes increased stiffness). Since I dont want to run more than the OEM bar in the rear, I'll start mid/higher.
Whiskey11
SCCA Autoscrosser #23 STU
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The last part with regards to car setup is pretty important. Treat the RC location like a swaybar without the negative effects. Higher rear RC = less roll = looser car (towards oversteer). Lower RC = more roll = tighter car (towards understeer. Where you want the position is going to depend on what you are doing. If it was autocross, I'd probably start in hole #2 or #3. For roadcourse, probably #4 or #5.
Also, arm angle doesn't matter much to the geometry except that they need to be equal and opposite angles. IE: The arms need to be making an arrow up or down or they need to be an equal sign with regards to the center pivot. The equal sign tends to be best because it maximizes travel in both directions before you start moving outside the "straight portion" of the s curve geometry of a watts link.
Also, arm angle doesn't matter much to the geometry except that they need to be equal and opposite angles. IE: The arms need to be making an arrow up or down or they need to be an equal sign with regards to the center pivot. The equal sign tends to be best because it maximizes travel in both directions before you start moving outside the "straight portion" of the s curve geometry of a watts link.
Is hole #1 at the top or bottom in this case? I'm guessing the top.
Last edited:
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
Are you numbering the holes with #1 at the top or at the bottom?
Didn't see Cobra's similar question until the screen refreshed on submittal.
Norm
Didn't see Cobra's similar question until the screen refreshed on submittal.
Norm
Whiskey11
SCCA Autoscrosser #23 STU
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Yes, using #1 as the top hole. Sorry, forgot the frame of reference (no pun intended).
The effect of placing it in the top holes for autocross is going to loosen the car up to help it around the tighter corners, in case that wasn't obvious!
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