Dad's newest brainstorm (twin screw windsor based motor)

05yellowgt

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My Dad is the reason I got into cars and Mustangs. He had a bunch of cool cars, various 60's Mustangs, turbo Pinto, and quite a few BOSS's. He had a yellow 69 BOSS 302 with a rare CROSS BOSS intake which he daily drove on slicks which is the only car he had when I was born and I remember going into the garage and just staring at it for hours on end.

A few years ago he started putting together a replacement motor for his F250 that he and I built up from a wrecked roll over. We replaced the frame, cab and bed, axles, the whole deal. It had a 302, since it was a light duty f250. All the rest of the running gear was upgraded to 1 ton F350 components. When he decided to replace the motor, he went a little nuts on the options. He could have just gone with a 351 block with a stroker kit and a mild top end kit. Instead, he purchased a World Products Man O War 351 block, AFR 205 heads, Trick Flow intake, etc.


That motor has set on the stand since it was built because he went through a divorce soon after and he is wanting to pick it up again. He's not sure if he is going to put it into his F250 or if he wants to pickup a Fox or SN95 mustang to put the motor in. He's decided he wants to put a blower on the motor and called me and asked if I knew how to put a Kenne Bell or Whipple on his motor. It would help solve firewall clearance issues if he puts it in the F250 (maybe). I told him I knew it would be easy to put something like a 671 or 871 roots blower on it, but I had never heard of a twin screw windsor, at least not a 351. I know Kenne Bell had their kits for the 93-95 302 based Fox's, but nothing that would fit a 351 based application.

Anyone ever seen such a combo?
 

Department Of Boost

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My Dad is the reason I got into cars and Mustangs. He had a bunch of cool cars, various 60's Mustangs, turbo Pinto, and quite a few BOSS's. He had a yellow 69 BOSS 302 with a rare CROSS BOSS intake which he daily drove on slicks which is the only car he had when I was born and I remember going into the garage and just staring at it for hours on end.

A few years ago he started putting together a replacement motor for his F250 that he and I built up from a wrecked roll over. We replaced the frame, cab and bed, axles, the whole deal. It had a 302, since it was a light duty f250. All the rest of the running gear was upgraded to 1 ton F350 components. When he decided to replace the motor, he went a little nuts on the options. He could have just gone with a 351 block with a stroker kit and a mild top end kit. Instead, he purchased a World Products Man O War 351 block, AFR 205 heads, Trick Flow intake, etc.


That motor has set on the stand since it was built because he went through a divorce soon after and he is wanting to pick it up again. He's not sure if he is going to put it into his F250 or if he wants to pickup a Fox or SN95 mustang to put the motor in. He's decided he wants to put a blower on the motor and called me and asked if I knew how to put a Kenne Bell or Whipple on his motor. It would help solve firewall clearance issues if he puts it in the F250 (maybe). I told him I knew it would be easy to put something like a 671 or 871 roots blower on it, but I had never heard of a twin screw windsor, at least not a 351. I know Kenne Bell had their kits for the 93-95 302 based Fox's, but nothing that would fit a 351 based application.

Anyone ever seen such a combo?

There is nothing like this out there. And the KB kit is JUNK! It’s a 2.2L (not nearly big enough for a Windsor, or a 302 IMO) with a tiny inlet……..and no intercooler!

We have been kickin the idea of a Windsor based intake around for a product lineup. But they would be EXPENSIVE. And the distributor would probably have to go so that means converting over to a crank trigger. More expense.

We could do it. And if your Dad was interested in covering costs (not retail, costs) it could possibly happen. I’d run a minimum of a 2.9L Whipple or better yet a 3.4L on that motor.
 

weather man

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Hogan might have something, but definately not cheap.
 

Department Of Boost

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Hogan might have something, but definately not cheap.

Doesn’t look like they have an off the shelf unit for anything near that application. And if they did it looks like it would be $5000+.

We could prototype one for less than that.
 

05yellowgt

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There is nothing like this out there. And the KB kit is JUNK! It’s a 2.2L (not nearly big enough for a Windsor, or a 302 IMO) with a tiny inlet……..and no intercooler!

We have been kickin the idea of a Windsor based intake around for a product lineup. But they would be EXPENSIVE. And the distributor would probably have to go so that means converting over to a crank trigger. More expense.

We could do it. And if your Dad was interested in covering costs (not retail, costs) it could possibly happen. I’d run a minimum of a 2.9L Whipple or better yet a 3.4L on that motor.

What he was speculating and asked my idea on was the following:

Taking an existing Weiand lower intake for 671/871 applications for a 351W and then taking an intercooler from Whipple Marine and finally making a mounting/adapter plate to sandwich between the Weiand manifold and a Whipple head unit. You'd still have to fab up an intake, and figure out the drive belt configuration and figure out fueling. My dad wants to run Mass Air Fuel injection and doesn't want to go the Carb route.

Might be cheaper for you to fab something up from scratch though.
 

05yellowgt

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As far as head unit size, I was thinking a 3.4 or 4.0 off the top of my head without looking at anything else.

The motor in question is 400 cu in with 9:0 compression and AFR 205 heads with their CNC exhaust ports. Cam is to be determined at this point. I'm going to push him to run E85 as well.
 

Department Of Boost

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I just took a look at that Weiand manifold. That could be used as a base and then build an adapter/intercooler for it. It would get real tall, real quick though. I’m not even sure you could fit it under the hood of a F-250! Nothing a tape measure couldn’t figure out pretty easily though.

Without having one of the Wieand’s in my hands it would be hard to suss through all the details though. Like where to put the injectors, etc. And I think by the time you were done modding the Weiand to work you may as well have started from scratch. If we did something from scratch it would mount a lot lower and we would be able to run a bigger intercooler. We were also thinking that we would do it in two pieces (a “pan” and manifold) so the oil from the valley wouldn’t introduce heat into the incoming air. Plus we were talking about O-Ringing everything so it was real easy to service.

The belt would be easy to solve. We’ve done three dedicated 10 rib designs now.

We’ve put some thought into the Windsor. We are still finishing up a few other projects right now so haven’t gotten down to nuts and bolts yet. We were hoping to do a manifold that would accept stock GT500 blowers for the entry level guys and big Whipples for the high HP/Pro Touring/Show Car type crowd.

Yeah, at 400cu in and the AFR’s I would go at least a 3.4L. You could probably make 1000rwhp on pump with that. A 4.0L sure wouldn’t hurt though and would keep cruising IAT’s down a bit.
 

pacettr

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That motor shouldn't need a lot of help in the tq department. Why not just get a big centri?
 

05yellowgt

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That motor shouldn't need a lot of help in the tq department. Why not just get a big centri?
Its my dad, and is what he wants..... The whole reason this came about is that the Trick Flow intake he wanted to run won't clear the firewall on the F250. His next thought was that if he swapped out the Trick flow intake with a twin screw all would be right in the world.

:chainsaw:
 

TW1NTRB0

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I'm not sure if this guy is still making the kits, they weren't priced very high. I think one guy sold his that he bought for like $1200, you would still need to source your own blower. I almost bought the setup for my Lightning but put a GT45 turbo on instead. The setup is for an M122 from a GT500 on a 351W but I'm sure a Whipple or KB could be mounted. The setup looks factory and you can keep the distributor on this setup. May want to create an account and see if he still makes the kits. They were for sale not too long ago.

Link to a running setup (871Bolt) <maker of the kit.
http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/gen-1-lightnings/218980-gt-500-m-122-blower-video.html
 
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Department Of Boost

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I'm not sure if this guy is still making the kits, they weren't priced very high. I think one guy sold his that he bought for like $1200, you would still need to source your own blower. I almost bought the setup for my Lightning but put a GT45 turbo on instead. The setup is for an M122 from a GT500 on a 351W but I'm sure a Whipple or KB could be mounted. The setup looks factory and you can keep the distributor on this setup. May want to create an account and see if he still makes the kits. They were for sale not too long ago.

Link to a running setup (871Bolt) <maker of the kit.
http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/gen-1-lightnings/218980-gt-500-m-122-blower-video.html

No intercooler.:naughty:
 

TW1NTRB0

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Well we can't always have our cake and eat it too. Still an option for those who intend to run low boost and not track their ride.

Edit*
That guy makes a very odd looking side mount PD blower setup as well. I don't remember if it was intercooled or not, I'd have to look it up. He only made a couple of the side mounted ones.
 
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stangnn

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Whipple does make a twin screw that replaces a 671 saw it at pri 2012
 

Department Of Boost

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Well we can't always have our cake and eat it too. Still an option for those who intend to run low boost and not track their ride.

He can have his cake and eat it too. We can make anything he needs.:naughty1:

It can be argued well that screw blowers need intercoolers under normal (part throttle) driving conditions. Even just cruising around. Unlike roots, roots improved or TVS blowers, screw blowers are making boost all the time, and therefore making heat all the time.
 

nasty281

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He can have his cake and eat it too. We can make anything he needs.:naughty1:

It can be argued well that screw blowers need intercoolers under normal (part throttle) driving conditions. Even just cruising around. Unlike roots, roots improved or TVS blowers, screw blowers are making boost all the time, and therefore making heat all the time.

Iirc roots makes boost all the time too they just dont compress the boost like a TS they just push it or move it
 

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