JDM 302E Engine Owners - Check In!!

Gray Ghost GT

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What's the actual wording of the warranty?

Sent from a Galaxy S4 far, far away.

JDM doesn't warranty their engine if it experienced "detonation". Question is, "What happens if the detonation that led to its failure was due to their own tuning?" Does the shop blame it on bad fuel or some other variable? A few of us found our new JDM 302E motors were experiencing detonation or other issues based on their tunes, which led us to have it retuned by another shop. I want to emphasize the point that this is not "personal", but simply a summary of findings. They're a good bunch of guys and I think they built me a good 302E motor; my issue was with the tuning and scheduling.
 
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Bingo

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Which is exactly why a warranty on such a product is worth nothing. Too many variables. For what it's worth, JDM has done good by me so far. I just think this is a shitty situation exacerbated by distance and difficulty with logistics.

Sent from a Galaxy S4 far, far away.
 

tigerhonaker

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Skwerl, BadPiggy, and BruceH are 100% correct.

Gerald tried for WEEKS to get a usable tune from JDM. If you followed the daily blow-by-blow, Gerald did not want to use a tune from ANYONE other than JDM because he wanted to preserve the warranty.

Keep in mind that Gerald chose to buy a COMPLETE setup from JDM, including tune. Not just a short-block...this was an epic build of TigerHonaker-like proportions. Gerald spared no expense...full suspension make-over from BMR, Koni yellows...A arms...new exhaust...new T56 Magnum tranny...the whole banana. JDM's part in the build was the powerplant. Block, heads and blower - all assembled and ready to bolt-on. Tune included.

The ONLY reason Gerald went to Lito for tuning was because JDM could not provide a usable tune. He did so with great hesitation...not wanting to lose any warranty that JDM was offering.

IMHO, It's entirely possible that the engine was built correctly and within acceptable spec for the components used, and the poor start / run attempts coupled with JDM's "easy break-in" procedure are the culprit.

In various posts concerning this build I've seen JDM blame Gerald on three separate occasions for the "problem":

  • Break in oil issue - Gerald's fault
  • Injectors too big / too rich / washing cylinders
  • Using Lito's tune instead of JDM's

Yet, JDM did offer to help with the re-build. I do respect and admire JDM for saying they will do what they can if Gerald ships them the engine.

If you are in Gerald's shoes...you have to decide what is best. Crate-ship the engine back to JDM and let them have a second crack it at under "warranty", or do you do it again either yourself or allowing another builder to try it?

After all he's been through, I think his current decision is sound - go elsewhere. JDM had their shot. Just my opinion.

Shane ...


this was an epic build of TigerHonaker-like proportions.
I can't at all comment on what is and has taken place with Gerald and JDM.

I can and will add this comment to S-197 members.
I use Brenspeed for a reason.
Brent has not Screwed me yet and this is going on 6-yrs.
I am a strong believer in finding a performance company you can Trust.
My opinion is that far out weighs cost, driving time etc. to do business with the company you Trust.

And for the Brenspeed Haters you can save your comments I won't respond to them.

I'm just taking a minute or so here on Gerald's Thread to say picking the right Company is extremely important.

I use Brenspeed as simply an example of the one I picked that has not {Fucked} me even one time !!!

Gerald I hope you get your machine one day to perform the way you want it to.




Terry
 
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stkjock

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back on topic please - leave the off topic comments out

TIA
 

AutoXRacer

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Stkjock, let me say one thing...then its all technical after this.

Wow... Man you guys are passionate!!!
I think some of you may be more upset than me. Thank you for the support though!!

Frankly, I don't blame anyone. Like some have said, building a high horsepower motor/vehicle is a gamble and I understand that.

First of all, Jim Jr has been great answering all my questions and concerns. I am happy with the motor as this baby made over 600 rwhp up to the day it was pulled. Even with washed out cylinder walls it still made over 600 rwhp and over 580 rwtq at 16 PSI with only 16 degrees timing using 92 octane fuel. It never smoked or did anything unusual other than consume oil.

Now, my only grief with JDM was the tune experience. I could not get a working tune out of them, car stalled, RPMs shot up, etc... I understand race season was coming up and Jim Sr which creates all the tunes was not readily available. After spending one year putting my car together and over $40,000 in parts and what have you, I wanted to drive the car. Reluctantly, I looked for reputable local tuners and finally through word of mouth ended up contracting Lito's services. Lito got the car up and running in two revisions. Even though I was tuning with Lito, I still tried to work with JDM to get me a tune. I spent another $1,000 on a local shop that supposedly worked with JDM to try to get me a working tune; we got close but still had drive-ability issues. JDM's and Lito's tune were identical...horsepower and torque numbers were within 5-6 HP/TQ. The only difference was that Lito's tune drove like stock.

So, other than the whole tuning issue, JDM has been great!!! Would I get another motor from JDM? Sure I would!! But in all honesty, if I am not local to NJ, I would go elsewhere to have it tuned after my experience. Now, I am not saying JDM can't tune, I just feel Jim Sr was not there for me as he was distracted with his race team. Lots of great JDM tunes out there. Check out their drag car, its awesome!!!

My only suggestion to JDM is to get a dedicated person to create and handle tunes.
Jim Sr is too involved in R&D and the race team to effectively provide reasonable tuning service (long distance-wise).

Moving on, I wish I knew then what I know now. I would have never gone with FRPP 80LB injectors. I believe my issues all stem from the 80LB injectors. Jim Jr did initially suggest the 60LB injectors, but after researching and talking to Ford Racing, they advised the 60LB at my (at the time) power goal (700 rwhp) was too small; 80LB were recommended. I debated this with Jim Jr and we settled upon the 80LB since Jim Jr said they can tune for it. Being a Ford OEM part and tons of people running them what was the harm?

Now, I run and will only run from now on ID1000s.
These ID1000s are amazing!! I wish I would have gotten them first.

So, where are we at now?

The motor is completely torn apart with exception of the short block:

DSC00185_zpsa6789f57.jpg


I will be sending the short block to C&D Engine Performance; after numerous recommendations and several high horsepower street and race car owners high praises. They will tear apart, inspect, and rebuild the short block.

I don't expect any warranty or financial compensation from JDM. Jim Jr did suggest I ship the motor back to them, but frankly shipping the motor to and from JDM would have cost a lot more than just having it done locally and would take longer. JDM would not do anything different than a reputable local shop would do. The cost of one way shipping to JDM cost the same as having the motor redone locally.

I ordered new heads from Tasca as Steve gave me an awesome deal on Stage 2 FRPP heads (standard CNC-Ported heads). My current JDM motor had new FRPP production heads JDM put together. I ordered new heads as I was 90% convinced it was the heads that had the issue. I still haven't torn them apart, but I can say with 95% certainty after looking at the cylinder walls that its most likely not the heads. But I did wish I had put the Stage 2 FRPP heads on initially, so here they are; who doesn't want more power?? lol

So I will have short block rebuilt by a local engine builder. I definitely would like JDM's collaboration during this process as I feel they have a great performing setup. Hopefully JDM doesn't put me on their blacklist after this thread.

I bet there will be challenges with the new engine builder as I can see him recommending reducing the compression ratio with the boost and fuel I am running. But we will deal with that when the time comes. I will definitely post all the technical details.

I don't want this thread to turn into a finger pointing or bad mouthing anyone.
Like I said JDM is great and they know what they are doing. Would I recommend them? Yes and I have to several people, but I have warned them about the tuning part relating to my own personal experience.

So lets move on and get into the nitty gritty of making big power!!!!!
 

skwerl

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As far as the actual build quality of the JDM 302e I am impressed so far. I bought mine second hand (new in the crate) so I have not dealt with JDM directly but the short block itself is holding up to some fairly impressive numbers. I'm glad I bought an engine with a Kellogg crank and not an Eagle. As soon as I get this little misfire issue resolved we'll be hitting the dyno again and Justin says we will hit 700 easily with this little TVS1900.
 

Fabman

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As far as the actual build quality of the JDM 302e I am impressed so far. I bought mine second hand (new in the crate) so I have not dealt with JDM directly but the short block itself is holding up to some fairly impressive numbers. I'm glad I bought an engine with a Kellogg crank and not an Eagle. As soon as I get this little misfire issue resolved we'll be hitting the dyno again and Justin says we will hit 700 easily with this little TVS1900.

I've dealt with Jim jr. extensively over the last couple years and always got good service and great advice. I appreciate being able to call someone who knows my name and my setup from memory and is always ready to help rather than some big company where I am just a number and a dollar sign to them. :2cents: :thumb2:
 

crownaviation

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Think you handled this well, and no company worth its salt would put a customer on any sort of "black list" of that happened then screw the company....

Trust what the builder recommends. They will base recommendations of what you intend to use the car for... street, dedicated drag, dedicated auto x etc and go from there...

Sorry to hear all this but not too bad considering you do not have a big hole in the side that is not supposed to be there
 

AutoXRacer

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Think you handled this well, and no company worth its salt would put a customer on any sort of "black list" of that happened then screw the company....

Trust what the builder recommends. They will base recommendations of what you intend to use the car for... street, dedicated drag, dedicated auto x etc and go from there...

Sorry to hear all this but not too bad considering you do not have a big hole in the side that is not supposed to be there

Haha... Yes, lets not talk about holes, dropped valves, or anything horrible like that. LOL

Nothing much to report. Short block is still at the shop waiting to be torn down and inspected. I did order the ARP main stud kit and side bolts; damn another $330. LOL Thats the cheapest part I have bought so far. LOL

Ordered new AFR gauges; I currently have an AEM UEGO, but will be going with two Innovate Motorsports AFR; one for each bank. :D
Reason I decided to change AFR gauge is that the AEM is an earlier model and only goes between 10.0 to 18.0. The Innovate one goes as rich as 7.35 to as lean as 22.4. So I can keep an eye on rich conditions... sigh

Typically people just run one AFR, but figured why not monitor both banks?
Lots of engine failures have been due to the unmonitored bank going lean. But hopefully I am just going over-board and will never experience anything like that.

One question, how come no one offers a dual AFR gauge?? I would think that would be an awesome product; 2 AFR sensors displayed in one gauge!!!

It feels like 1.5 year ago all over again, where I am stock piling boxes of parts that car coming in on a daily basis. :giveup:

2012-06-29_17-19-14_526.jpg

(last year...but ended up being three times that much)

DSC08221.jpg


So just for future comparison, here is my stock motor with 64K miles.

DSC07541.jpg


See how the cylinder walls are dull and you can clearly see the cross hatch?
Now look at my new motor where the cylinder walls got washed out and polished.

DSC00155_zpse6ab78a7.jpg


It not the ideal picture, but the cylinder walls are so shiny that they reflect the piston perfectly.

DSC00143_zps19a44955.jpg
 
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tigerhonaker

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Man things are stacking up for the new build :thumb2: ^^^

Nothing more fun than watching the UPS guy drop things off or if your lucky this little gal.

images




Terry
 

AutoXRacer

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Man things are stacking up for the new build :thumb2: ^^^

Nothing more fun than watching the UPS guy drop things off or if your lucky this little gal.

images




Terry

Damn... Never seen a UPS person like her!!! I may just stay home and wait for the package if this was the case!!! LOL

OK, so maybe not as much as last year...but still waiting on a ton of parts that are stuck in the snow. lol

DSC00207_zps494d365c.jpg


Parts bagged and labeled!!

DSC00206_zps762dd807.jpg
 
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o2sys

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Anyone have this engine without forced induction? What are your numbers?
 

AutoXRacer

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Man, I haven't updated this thread in a while...

Got my new pistons, shortblock is being assembled as I type this. Should be another 1-2 weeks before I get it back and start the build again.

I had to return my FRPP CNC/Ported heads to FRPP due to manufacturing defects. The heads should arrive to FRPP today and I am hoping FRPP ships out new ones on Monday at the latest.

Heads and shortblock should be available on the same week...then its tool time!!!!

BTW, I have never heard of anyone with a JDM 302E motor in a natural aspirated application. Why would you build a 1000HP shortblock to just run 400HP?

Actually I know of one person...
 

JimIII@JDM

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Anyone have this engine without forced induction? What are your numbers?
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mmfp-0801-mustang-jdm-stroker/

http://www.mustangandfords.com/even...ootout/james-damore-iii-2006-saleen-s281.html

I eventually made 396 RWHP through an Automatic trans and ran 11.15@120mph with my car. This was before any of the better flowing intake manifolds were better, I swear if I had the FRPP or C&L intake on the car it could have potentially run a 10!

We also have done a few NA builds here in house, there is one gentleman on this board (GrayGhostGT) who runs NA with our 302E, Ported heads, and Cams...he has the stock manifold too and made almost 400 RWHP as well. His car is Stick and runs 93 octane.
 
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JimIII@JDM

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Man, I haven't updated this thread in a while...

Got my new pistons, shortblock is being assembled as I type this. Should be another 1-2 weeks before I get it back and start the build again.

I had to return my FRPP CNC/Ported heads to FRPP due to manufacturing defects. The heads should arrive to FRPP today and I am hoping FRPP ships out new ones on Monday at the latest.

Heads and shortblock should be available on the same week...then its tool time!!!!

BTW, I have never heard of anyone with a JDM 302E motor in a natural aspirated application. Why would you build a 1000HP shortblock to just run 400HP?

Actually I know of one person...


Well when my car ran low 11's NA it pissed off alot of Supercharged cars :beerchug2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSqW6kfK-bE
 
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