If you did this it would have to be a gen 3 computer, because I'm sure the short block doesnt matter except for the fact it is a lower compression motor to begin with and the heads being dual injection. Truthfully its best to stick with the same and in the instance you wanna buy a newer gen motor to do so and sell the old one without doing too much swapping to save the headache.
My cheap as dirt Coyote swap.. 06 GT 500 to the wheels for $5000
- Thread starter race4food
- Start date
Well for sure parts are very expensive and can add up quick. You can buy some nice GEN 2 truck engines in the $2500 range but to use them in a 2014 GT, you will need new cams with new phasers. They are not cheap. Although the time chain kit is cheap then of course you need a front cover. All this can add another $2500. I guess with GEN 2 Mustang engines, you just need a new stock intake cam and both phasers. Co-Part has lots of GEN 1 engines with 100,000 mile plus on them for $4500. I guess the deal would be a low mile GEN2 Mustang engine for about $5000 which has $800 worth of Boss Exhaust Cams already in it. Just use Rockauto stock 2014 intake cams for $250 a set and new phasers for another $250 a set.
race4food
forum member
Finally!!!! She LIVES!!!!!
race4food
forum member
So it turns out the Power by the hour harness makes this swap STUPID easy.
Well once you have deciphered the very basic instructions. Turns out all of my issues with communications to the computer and connectivity were due to a incorrectly wired OBD2 port and it frying my Forescan interface.
So you have their fuse box assembly and it requires a wire to run to the fuel pump, the Fan, Power and a Ground. Then there is a ignition wire, and run wire that go to the ignition column, (easily connected once you have the correct schematic, that I will include later). Then the last two wires go to the clutch switch and the brake switch. That's it! It plugs into the EEC and then to the transmission harness. Get your Computer flashed to disable PATS and load your startup tune.
Well once you have deciphered the very basic instructions. Turns out all of my issues with communications to the computer and connectivity were due to a incorrectly wired OBD2 port and it frying my Forescan interface.
So you have their fuse box assembly and it requires a wire to run to the fuel pump, the Fan, Power and a Ground. Then there is a ignition wire, and run wire that go to the ignition column, (easily connected once you have the correct schematic, that I will include later). Then the last two wires go to the clutch switch and the brake switch. That's it! It plugs into the EEC and then to the transmission harness. Get your Computer flashed to disable PATS and load your startup tune.
race4food
forum member
Boss cams are $105 each from Ford, front cover is $95. Buy a core gen1 for the timing gear or wait until the Ford Racing kits are back in stock and get the full timing package for $500, or I guess you could get the rebranded ford parts through rockauto. The Standard motor products are ford original in a generic box.
Yes it does seem a 2015 low mile truck "alternative order of fire" engine for around $2500 or so is the way to go. The intake cam would have to be stock 2014 with the Boss exhaust. New front cover and a 500 timing kit. Seems to be no such thing as a core Coyote in a junkyard unless it's burned. It also seems the 2015 timing set is different then the 2014 in chain pitch.
The issue is what needs to be changed? The listing for a Coyote timing chain is the same from 11 to 15. So maybe the 16 and 17 GEN2 need a new timing chain but not the 2015 which has the same part numbers as 2014. So it would look like to convert a 2015 truck engine to GEN 1 ECU one would need a set of standard fire cams with the exhaust being a Boss cam plus phasers and a front cover. It could be not even the exhaust phaser needs to be changed because only the intake moves.
Way too many $5000 100000+ mile Gen 1s around to do that when low mile Truck GEN2 can be had for under $2500. The trick is, just what needs to be changed. Then if you find a good 2015 GEN2, maybe only the intake cam and phaser needs to be changed. I actually heard this from a Ford dealer. You can not run a Boss intake cam on a GEN2 engine with an unlocked phaser and a GEN 1 ECU will not operate a locked phaser of a GEN2.
race4food
forum member
Here is a F150 vs a real GT engine in the same car using mustang intake and headers. The dealership tried to pull a fast one on this guy.
Gen 1/2/3? I understand the dyno operator can move the curves up or down by a knob. Interesting 400 rwh. GEN2 truck cams will not work on any GT as they have an alternat firing order. It is true, a GEN1 truck and GEN1 GT can be interchanged without opening the engine up.
race4food
forum member
The differences in the F150 are mainly the cams and the compression, although the compression maybe a difference of 10-12hp only @ 4% per point, 10.5 in F150 vs 11:1 in GT.
I got a gen 2 F150 because I wanted the heads and was going to use Boss Cams, long tube headers and an 18 intake anyway. It did not make sense for me to get a complete running engine and toss out all of the parts I would be replacing anyway. I was also planning to do the oil pump and crank gears while it was out.
If you really want to be cheap look for a Gen2 Core and a Gen 1 core, swap the timing gear to the gen 2 and roll. Sell the left over engine.
Cores are easily available for $250-500 through car-part.com
Do what your particular budget and project allows. The fastest EASIEST way is to get a pull out from a wreck but not necessarily budget friendly or performance friendly.
And what is the point of a STOCK coyote swap anyway. It seems quite silly to not put in headers at the minimum while you are there.
And a cam swap with gears is VERY easy if the motor is sitting on your garage floor anyway.
The timing is almost impossible to get wrong
I got a gen 2 F150 because I wanted the heads and was going to use Boss Cams, long tube headers and an 18 intake anyway. It did not make sense for me to get a complete running engine and toss out all of the parts I would be replacing anyway. I was also planning to do the oil pump and crank gears while it was out.
If you really want to be cheap look for a Gen2 Core and a Gen 1 core, swap the timing gear to the gen 2 and roll. Sell the left over engine.
Cores are easily available for $250-500 through car-part.com
Do what your particular budget and project allows. The fastest EASIEST way is to get a pull out from a wreck but not necessarily budget friendly or performance friendly.
And what is the point of a STOCK coyote swap anyway. It seems quite silly to not put in headers at the minimum while you are there.
And a cam swap with gears is VERY easy if the motor is sitting on your garage floor anyway.
The timing is almost impossible to get wrong
That is the issue. A Boss intake cam must be semi locked in order to run in a GEN2 engine. Then all GEN2 Truck Engines have the Alternate Firing Order cams. All GEN2 GT Engines have Boss cams both intake and exhaust. Then the 2015 use the 2014 timing chains and it seems 2016 up have the different pitch timing chain. So the GEN2 engines are really not totally VCT controlled. Movement is restricted to just a few degrees to save the valves.
The points of a stock coyote swap:
1 400 rwhp
2 stock reliabiliry
3 decent fuel economy considering
4 ease of tuning, the stock ford tune WILL work.
5 will run on 87 octane regular just fine
6 emission legal, legally
7 faster swap as no engine building is required. You know that takes time.
Im sure I could think of a few more reasons.
1 400 rwhp
2 stock reliabiliry
3 decent fuel economy considering
4 ease of tuning, the stock ford tune WILL work.
5 will run on 87 octane regular just fine
6 emission legal, legally
7 faster swap as no engine building is required. You know that takes time.
Im sure I could think of a few more reasons.
race4food
forum member
Uhhh everything you just said is wrong. From ford racing: https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/COYOTE_TECH_GUIDE_062819.PDF
Then the only firing order difference is in the gen 3 truck engine. Then the Gen3 use a rear phaser on the exhaust cams. Not sure what you mean about not totally VCT controlled in GEN2. The gen 2 phasers can advance and retard, gen 1 only advance.
The timing gear between 1&2 is all different. The number of teeth on the gears and the placement is different including the chain notch type.
Then the only firing order difference is in the gen 3 truck engine. Then the Gen3 use a rear phaser on the exhaust cams. Not sure what you mean about not totally VCT controlled in GEN2. The gen 2 phasers can advance and retard, gen 1 only advance.
The timing gear between 1&2 is all different. The number of teeth on the gears and the placement is different including the chain notch type.
EXACTLY. I am sure the timing set for 2011 through 2015 Coyote listed by Ford on several sites is totally wrong. That is why this thread. We had someone on the site that only changed the intake cam on his Gen 2 Truck to play in a GEN1 Mustang and it was only firing on 2 cyl. The reason was the GEN2 Truck was using the Alternate Firing Order. So lets see how much we disagree on just what might be in that junkyard Coyote engine you see in the mud.
I am really ready to believe that GEN2 trucks have standard fire cams and the only thing that needs changed is the front cover to plug and play in a GEN1 Mustang. I am sure the GEN2 trucks do not have the Boss cams.
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race4food
forum member
the ONLY firing order difference is the 18+ F150 ALL other coyotes are the same.
Then there is no reason GEN2 trucks would not be Plug and Play in a GEN1 Mustang other then the front cover. Who else agrees with this?
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