The Great Intercooler Water Pump Test

[Fullboogie]

So when are people going to start putting baps on the water pumps? Should be an easy way to get 17 or so volts when you need it for more flow. Turn it down for normal driving. It's only going to cost someone $100 or so for a used 20a bap.

Bruce, that is an ingenious idea. I would never have thought of that.

 

[Department Of Boost]

So when are people going to start putting baps on the water pumps? Should be an easy way to get 17 or so volts when you need it for more flow. Turn it down for normal driving. It's only going to cost someone $100 or so for a used 20a bap.

After we were done testing (it was still set up) we wanted to do this with the Turbo Pump. We tried a few things but couldn't come up with something on the spot. I called the US distributor and asked if anyone had ever done it and they said no, and they couldn't recommend it, LOL. Whatever, that won't stop me. I'll try it.

I don't think any of the other pumps will get much better with a ton of voltage. Their impeller design doesn't lend itself to it very well. The turbo pump looks like it may like it though.

The Lingenfelter already runs at 16 or 17 volts or something. That is why that thing is such a beast.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I think the pump claims are with no output restriction and system to push through, since how would the pump manufacturer know what system the pump is going in, which indeed is a bit misleading.

The 55gpm Meziere won't get anywhere near 55gpm, even with no restriction.

Industrial pump manufacturers have charts that come with their pumps that show how well they pump against multiple restrictions.

Can you imagine if turbo companies sold their turbos based on what let's say cfm they would push with zero restriction? No other data? No impeller size, no A/R ratio, etc. It would be up to you to test them all out. that's what the water pumps are like. Sucky.

 

[BruceH]

After we were done testing (it was still set up) we wanted to do this with the Turbo Pump. We tried a few things but couldn't come up with something on the spot. I called the US distributor and asked if anyone had ever done it and they said no, and they couldn't recommend it, LOL. Whatever, that won't stop me. I'll try it.

I don't think any of the other pumps will get much better with a ton of voltage. Their impeller design doesn't lend itself to it very well. The turbo pump looks like it may like it though.

The Lingenfelter already runs at 16 or 17 volts or something. That is why that thing is such a beast.

It shouldn't be too difficult to design and manufacture a DOB voltage regulator. It's been awhile since I've been involved with electronics but a little searching and I'd bet that plans would be available on the internet. Maybe an SCR and biased op amp? Probably too much current for that. Jeremy is an active duty ET. He has that great Great Lakes Navy Basic Electronics education. I'd be willing to bet that he could come up with a basic VR with minimum research.

 

[Department Of Boost]

It shouldn't be too difficult to design and manufacture a DOB voltage regulator. It's been awhile since I've been involved with electronics but a little searching and I'd bet that plans would be available on the internet. Maybe an SCR and biased op amp? Probably too much current for that. Jeremy is an active duty ET. He has that great Great Lakes Navy Basic Electronics education. I'd be willing to bet that he could come up with a basic VR with minimum research.

Me

 

[Dubstep Shep]

So is it worth looking at the lingenfelter pump even though I have the two 55GPM mezieres?

 

[Department Of Boost]

So is it worth looking at the lingenfelter pump even though I have the two 55GPM mezieres?

With the R-Spec the math is different.

I'm running two 55gpm Meziere's and will continue to run them.

If I was running any 3/4" based system I would be running that Lingenfelter pump though.

 

[CPRsm]

We'll finally get to try the lingenfelter pump on our kit. Going to need to see what needs to be done to get it to work w 1.25in lines though. No discharge temps to see how much better it works directly. But judging by the flow I've seen the Mez 55's do, I'll be very happy if we stay at similar temps while adding 250rwhp+.

 

[Department Of Boost]

We'll finally get to try the lingenfelter pump on our kit. Going to need to see what needs to be done to get it to work w 1.25in lines though. No discharge temps to see how much better it works directly. But judging by the flow I've seen the Mez 55's do, I'll be very happy if we stay at similar temps while adding 250rwhp+.

The pump is kind of hokey when kit comes to hookups. It has 1" nipples on it. I'm not a big fan of nipples (did I just say that????). I like having either AN or at least NPT's to work with. Nothing a TIG couldn't fix up though. You could put a couple of -20 AN fittings right on the pump. That would be nice.

We didn't test it at -20 because of the inlet/outlet size. It may have gotten even better, hard to tell. But at -16 it was flowing the same as the 55gpm Meziere with a -20. And I'll recon your IC cores are less restriction than ours so the Meziere will work even better. The Meziere works as long as it is de-restricted. And the Meziere takes a whole lot less power. The Meziere is about 6 amps. The Lingenfelter is 30!

I still like the big Meziere when paired with the right combo. It sounds like you are already there.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

With the R-Spec the math is different.

I'm running two 55gpm Meziere's and will continue to run them.

If I was running any 3/4" based system I would be running that Lingenfelter pump though.

Roger that.

You ever gonna ship my stuff maaaaan?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Roger that.

You ever gonna ship my stuff maaaaan?

I thought you were out of town for 2 months or something. And I was waiting to see if you were going to take that engine water pump off my hands.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I thought you were out of town for 2 months or something. And I was waiting to see if you were going to take that engine water pump off my hands.

Yea I am out of town until the middle of january, but I'll probably go back a couple of times. My roomie is there anyway though.

I'll let you know next week on that pump. I've been thinking about it but I've been flat broke after buying the other stuff haha. Friday is payday though, so maybe.

 

[CPRsm]

The pump is kind of hokey when kit comes to hookups. It has 1" nipples on it. I'm not a big fan of nipples (did I just say that????). I like having either AN or at least NPT's to work with. Nothing a TIG couldn't fix up though. You could put a couple of -20 AN fittings right on the pump. That would be nice.

We didn't test it at -20 because of the inlet/outlet size. It may have gotten even better, hard to tell. But at -16 it was flowing the same as the 55gpm Meziere with a -20. And I'll recon your IC cores are less restriction than ours so the Meziere will work even better. The Meziere works as long as it is de-restricted. And the Meziere takes a whole lot less power. The Meziere is about 6 amps. The Lingenfelter is 30!

Yeah, like most things, once you get to a certain point the little gains really cost you. But there looks to be a significant flow increase for the cost of those extra 24 amps. See if Kai can remember to flow it from tank and drain at the tank return to see what it looks like w all the pressure drop.
I'd still like more flow if possible. We stack the cores and double passes the water. That means 180 turn and running thru two cores length wise. Nice part is we'll feed the exit side first so the air charge sees the largest temperature differential right before it leaves.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Yeah, like most things, once you get to a certain point the little gains really cost you. But there looks to be a significant flow increase for the cost of those extra 24 amps. See if Kai can remember to flow it from tank and drain at the tank return to see what it looks like w all the pressure drop.
I'd still like more flow if possible. We stack the cores and double passes the water. That means 180 turn and running thru two cores length wise. Nice part is we'll feed the exit side first so the air charge sees the largest temperature differential right before it leaves.

Yeah, it sounds like your cores have a LOT more volume than what we can work with. Ours are 4.5x4.5x10 and we run them as a dual pass.

During testing we did test the core as a single pass (we built a convertible IC for the test) to see what would happen. Pretty much nothing. It may have flowed slightly more, really hard to tell though. It was so close as to be in the margin of error. In theory/on paper the single pass has some slight advantages. But they are far outweighed by the disadvantages of single pass packaging. That is pretty much a nightmare and in the realm of full race car with a PD setup.

 

[CPRsm]

Good to know it shouldn't be bad as a dual pass for drop. Yeah we run 2 of the 4.5x4.5x12 cores side by side. Lots of volume?
On paper for the single pass advantage, does it matter how the water division was oriented? On the 500's I can see how a dual pass is a disadvantage. It goes in and out all while both sides are facing the aircharge at the same time. That would keep the water in the core longer w no real advantage. Now if the fittings were on top of ea other I think it would be much better. But Garrett doesn't divide its cores that way.

 

[JeremyH]

It shouldn't be too difficult to design and manufacture a DOB voltage regulator. It's been awhile since I've been involved with electronics but a little searching and I'd bet that plans would be available on the internet. Maybe an SCR and biased op amp? Probably too much current for that. Jeremy is an active duty ET. He has that great Great Lakes Navy Basic Electronics education. I'd be willing to bet that he could come up with a basic VR with minimum research.

Calling me out lol.

I like the idea of speeding up the pump with a bap as long as it can handle it and is rated for the 16-17 volts. You could retain the the hobbs switch as well so it only speeds up when boosting. The real question before looking at voltage step up electronics is how many amps the motor pulls and what the new amp pull will be at the increased voltage.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Calling me out lol.

I like the idea of speeding up the pump with a bap as long as it can handle it and is rated for the 16-17 volts. You could retain the the hobbs switch as well so it only speeds up when boosting. The real question before looking at voltage step up electronics is how many amps the motor pulls and what the new amp pull will be at the increased voltage.

As far as handling it goes........just gonna have to see what happens.

If we smoke the pump we smoke the pump. Not the end of the world. They aren't that expensive.

The pump is about 5amps at 14.2v. From what the Lingenfelter and Rule pull I'm guessing it would be in the 25-30amp range all juiced up.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Good to know it shouldn't be bad as a dual pass for drop. Yeah we run 2 of the 4.5x4.5x12 cores side by side. Lots of volume?

I would make a mess in my pants if I could stuff all that in a PD manifold!!!! That is a ton of volume compared to what I get to work with.

I'm playing with 202.5cu in. You are playing with 486cu in! Cheater!!!

On paper for the single pass advantage, does it matter how the water division was oriented?

I'm not sure if I'm following correctly, but I'll give it a shot.

On a single I don't think it matters how you feed it. Just as long as you have the correct volume. You could feed it with a -20 right in the middle of the core or you could split the -20 into tow -16's and feed the core side by side/top bottom, I don't think it will really matters. Maybe on paper way out there in theory land if you were to split a -20 into lets say four -12's you may see better use of the entire core volume by keeping more of the water moving at a faster speed (less slow moving water around the perimeter). That is just a theory though. I really doubt you could test for the results without a lab.

On the 500's I can see how a dual pass is a disadvantage. It goes in and out all while both sides are facing the aircharge at the same time. That would keep the water in the core longer w no real advantage. Now if the fittings were on top of ea other I think it would be much better. But Garrett doesn't divide its cores that way.

I'm confused here. The GT500's have the fittings one on top of the other. I think (I've never cut one open, to much $$$$) that the GT500's use two cores in there and there is a little space between them.

 

[JeremyH]

As far as handling it goes........just gonna have to see what happens.

If we smoke the pump we smoke the pump. Not the end of the world. They aren't that expensive.

The pump is about 5amps at 14.2v. From what the Lingenfelter and Rule pull I'm guessing it would be in the 25-30amp range all juiced up.

I don't see others or the the end user/customer having the same view. Just buy a new pump everytime you smoke one. lol

If you have a pump that pulls 5amps at 14volts, thats nothing, bumping input voltage from 14 to 17 would be minimal difference. It would maybe pull 1-3 more amps depending on resistance of the windings in the pump motor. Just upgrading the pump and voltage booster wiring would negate that increased amp pull.

Those 16-17volt pumps pull 25-30amps as they are much more powerful higher wattage motors.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I don't see others or the the end user/customer having the same view. Just buy a new pump everytime you smoke one. lol

I would test the crap out of one before I suggested anyone else do it. And even after testing I would tell them it's "race only", not OEM. If they don't want to take the risk of smoking the pump run it at 14.2v and leave the performance on the table.

If you have a pump that pulls 5amps at 14volts, thats nothing, bumping input voltage from 14 to 17 would be minimal difference. It would maybe pull 1-3 more amps depending on resistance of the windings in the pump motor. Just upgrading the pump and voltage booster wiring would negate that increased amp pull.

Cool, how do I test this?

Those 16-17volt pumps pull 25-30amps as they are much more powerful higher wattage motors.

Makes sense. I have a very basic understanding of electronics. Not my forte.

Thanks man!