Will there will be a run on S197 cars shortly?

tjm73

of Omicron Persei 8
S197 Team Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Posts
12,092
Reaction score
1,638
Location
Rush, NY
When you start looking at the alternatives to fossil fuels and then you look at what can be done with a relatively small engine and 1 gallon of gasoline it becomes obvious why gas is the go to fuel. IN my 2013 Focus I can (if I want) fill the gas tank currently from empty to full for about $30 bucks. I can then drive that car non-stop for about 390 miles plus or minus (about 6 hours) and stop for 10 minutes to refuel for another $30 bucks and drive another 6 hours. In about 12.5 hours for about $60 dollars I can go from Rochester NY to Florence SC (roughly 780 miles). An EV would require 2 charge stops minimum and add 2+ hours minimum to the trip.
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
1,093
Fuck the prius. Real world mpg is a tic over 40. A basic 4 banger gas car can do that. Buddy loves VWs, he tells me very high 30s on average. Why would anyone want a more complex hybrid is beyond me.
Give me a hybrid that gets over 100mpg and I will consider it.

Look up the VW XL1. Advertised mpg of 300. In testing, in the real world, it returned a measly 160 mpg. And that was 6 years ago. Where is it? Cause it beats the crap out of the prius.
No way in hell ur gonna get > 40 mpg around town with a 4 banger, like a Fusion sized car and weight.
Where the hybrids shine is around town driving, with lot's of stop and go. My fusion is superb on the hwy, but only 1/2 that around town. IF gasoline prices start increasing a bunch, and folks want the aprx same sized vehicle, you watch sales of hybrids increase.
 

tjm73

of Omicron Persei 8
S197 Team Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Posts
12,092
Reaction score
1,638
Location
Rush, NY
It will end up being all show, no go.

You've seen the new Mustangs right? They're all go off the showroom floor. Even the Ecoboost has plenty of go in stock form.

Anyway, I've said for years that laws that loosen restrictions but maintain emissions standards should be passed to protect and foster the automotive aftermarket. Instead of saying "You cannot do X." say "Do what ever you want as long as you don't increase the emissions of the vehicle."
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
Anyone remember Craig Vetter? He achived 475 mpg with small displacement and streamline motorcycle. Back in the 80s.
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
1,093
Thats kind of missing the point. I would rather be stopped by the emission police and have illegal cats vs NO cats.
Second, it should be a non issue if the pcm passes the obd tests without tuning tricks.
Third, if Im going "off road" use, then NO cats will be installed. I have no idea why cats are sold as "off road" use only. Thats an oxi moron.
Its good to be emissions excempt!
I'm talking abt performance enhancing tuning, like more tq/hp etc.
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
No way in hell ur gonna get > 40 mpg around town with a 4 banger, like a Fusion sized car and weight.
Where the hybrids shine is around town driving, with lot's of stop and go. My fusion is superb on the hwy, but only 1/2 that around town. IF gasoline prices start increasing a bunch, and folks want the aprx same sized vehicle, you watch sales of hybrids increase.
30 around town, close to 40 highway. I can ask my buddy exactly what he gets with his.
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
I'm talking abt performance enhancing tuning, like more tq/hp etc.
Even thats becoming less and less of a gain with these new cars. ( I could start a whole new thread on Coyote tuning) But basically, these performace cars are pretty much maxed out from the factory. All the different tumes I have run, based on two different strategies, unnoticable power difference between tunes. A tune either runs great, or has drivability and idle issues and still makes the same power WOT. Thats it in a nutshell. And SCT tunes are OK as long as nothing got disabled emissions wise.
 

tjm73

of Omicron Persei 8
S197 Team Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Posts
12,092
Reaction score
1,638
Location
Rush, NY
Anyone remember Craig Vetter? He achived 475 mpg with small displacement and streamline motorcycle. Back in the 80s.

Tell me more! Sounds interesting.
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
1,093
You've seen the new Mustangs right? They're all go off the showroom floor. Even the Ecoboost has plenty of go in stock form.

Anyway, I've said for years that laws that loosen restrictions but maintain emissions standards should be passed to protect and foster the automotive aftermarket. Instead of saying "You cannot do X." say "Do what ever you want as long as you don't increase the emissions of the vehicle."

What's the worse case scenario from the lefties/ biden/ aoc/ green new deal types...over the next 12 years ? Heck, for all we know, they might ban V8's in passenger vehicles, put limits on hp, or put limits on HP to weight ratio's, put limits on A weighted DBA exhaust volume levels, outlaw manual transmissions etc.
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
Tell me more! Sounds interesting.
Ill have to dig it up, but there were these milage competitions back then. IIRC, it was a 125 cc bike, geared to the moon. Tteardrop bodywork aka streamliner. Cruising at avg street speeds over a set distance.
 

tjm73

of Omicron Persei 8
S197 Team Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Posts
12,092
Reaction score
1,638
Location
Rush, NY
What's the worse case scenario from the lefties/ biden/ aoc/ green new deal types...over the next 12 years ? Heck, for all we know, they might ban V8's in passenger vehicles, put limits on hp, or put limits on HP to weight ratio's, put limits on A weighted DBA exhaust volume levels, outlaw manual transmissions etc.

You are assuming the worst without reason to do so.
 

tjm73

of Omicron Persei 8
S197 Team Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Posts
12,092
Reaction score
1,638
Location
Rush, NY
I will find it. I distinctly remember that 475 and going Holy shit.
Same guy that sold the Vetter motorcycle fairings.

Yeah. He sounds like an interesting guy.
 

eighty6gt

forum member
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
4,292
Reaction score
403
You are assuming the worst without reason to do so.

He's an honorary republican.

Very good points re: mods for performance. My car wasn't that fast from the factory, still enjoyable. If I were to buy a brand new Bullitt, there'd be little to no chance I'd want or need to modify the powertrain. I would not buy a Bullitt now, though, because the transmission sucks and the car costs a billion dollars. I guess I'd buy a ZL1 Camaro or nothing because new car styling is wayy too admiral akbar or catfish looking for me.

The new Tesla plaid model s is going to run EIGHTS in the quarter mile. Again, I will never buy one as I'm retiring early, but good grief.

I believe 0% of electric charging/use FUD. These problems will be handily solved, and soon.
 

Rich

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2020
Posts
231
Reaction score
175
I guess I'd buy a ZL1 Camaro or nothing because new car styling is wayy too admiral akbar or catfish looking for.
That's what I said in post #40. See, I'm not the only one that thinks that it looks like a catfish!
 

WJBertrand

forum member
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Posts
737
Reaction score
184
IF gasoline prices went up say...40-60%, the next vehicle may well be a hybrid.

If the state gets their way here in California, hybrid and even fully electric cars will not offer any escape cost wise. Because these cars use less fuel, the state is afraid of reduced gasoline taxes, but since they don't necessarily use the roads any less, the wear and tear maintenance costs for the roads are not being fully paid by these types of vehicles. They are entertaining a surcharge tax on all electric and hybrid vehicles to make up the difference.
 

tjm73

of Omicron Persei 8
S197 Team Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Posts
12,092
Reaction score
1,638
Location
Rush, NY
EV's should have a tax applied to them based on the miles they drive. Every year at inspection time, they check mileage. Apply a tax rate at that time.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

I have a red car
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Posts
3,880
Reaction score
1,751
Location
Cyprus
What's the worse case scenario from the lefties/ biden/ aoc/ green new deal types...over the next 12 years? Heck, for all we know, they might ban V8's in passenger vehicles, put limits on hp, or put limits on HP to weight ratio's, put limits on A weighted DBA exhaust volume levels, outlaw manual transmissions etc.

Someone's in a joyful mood. ;)

1. They won't be in power for 12 years.

2. V8s have been around for a century so I don't think politicians will ban them. Hell, they would have to also ban V10s & V12s. If they did that Aston Martin, Maserati, Ferrari, and Lamborghini would instantly go out of business. Stricter targets for CO2 emissions (and consequently gas mileage since the two are related) are more likely, thus it would be left to car manufacturers to decide how to meet them.

3. Limits on HP are pretty unlikely but a limit on engine displacement would be a more realistic proposition. Car manufacturers are already reverting to smaller turbo engines and hybrids instead of bigger naturally-aspirated engines in order to reduce CO2 emissions.

4. Outlaw manual transmissions? Really? What's your reasoning behind that?

5. I don't know if the US has noise limits for the exhaust but in the UK & EU, it's 95dB. I wish they could apply the same limits to motorcycles since many of them are annoyingly loud, especially when there are idiots racing them down the road at three o' clock in the morning!

I don't think you need to be concerned about not being allowed to continue driving your Mustang for the foreseeable future when there's still a plethora of big SUVs and trucks around, so just enjoy it while you can. If the worst case scenario happens a few years from now and IC engines are banned altogether, just convert your S197 to electric power and extend its life even further.
Many classic cars have undergone electric conversions and are enjoying a new lease of life, so our S197s needn't be any different. Just preserve the bodyshell for when that time comes.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Support us!

Support Us - Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Sponsor Links

Banner image
Back
Top