The Great Intercooler Water Pump Test

[CPRsm]

Yes, the re-programmed beast.

sucks none of the data matches. But right now seems to be the baddest bitch around. Really sucks other pumps fall very short of their name.

How much boost is 1000hp for you? Boost is the measure that cooling capacity should be expressed in. A 2.5L motor making 1000hp will have a LOT higher temps than a 5.0L motor making 1000hp. Double actually (rough math).

I'm very curious if you see a substantial temp drop with how you are set up.

We are usually at 1000rwhp w 16-19psi depending on dyno and transmission. Even a 5 degree drop would be substantial when compared to the rise we have now, but not worth any power. We're just trying to maintain that rise w a big power increase.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I hate using PSI as a baseline comparison. For me I would rather use actual air mass being moved as that's what truly determines your power. There's a relationship there in each unique setup, but there are too many factory for my liking to make a meaningful comparison.

Disregarding parasitic losses from the blower, engine size is irrelevant to power if the same blower is used running the same RPM. You and I have had this discussion.

We are not talking about power, we are talking about heat. Stop thinking about power. It's irrelevant. Heat is not power, power is not heat.

So when you say a 2.5L running 15psi and a 5.0L running 15psi, are you saying the smaller motor has a blower moving half as much air as the big motor? That's what I'm getting from it.

You're killing me here!!!!! I'm going to explain this one more time. I'll try to keep it even simpler.

You have a 5.0L motor with a compressor (doesn't matter what it is) pushing air into it and it makes 15 psi and 700hp.

You have a 2.5L motor with the exact same compressor spinning the exact same speed. It will make 30psi and 700hp.

You following along?

The 5.0L motor will have a 255 deg discharge temp which is made up of 15psi @ 12deg/psi + 75 ambient.

The 2.5L motor will have a 435 deg discharge temp which is made up of 30psi @ 12deg/psi + 75 ambient.

All of the answers are right there^^^^

 

[Department Of Boost]

sucks none of the data matches. But right now seems to be the baddest bitch around. Really sucks other pumps fall very short of their name.

The 55 Meziere when set up with 1.25" line was only 1.5gpm behind the EMP for me. That is through a HE and IC and 12' of hose.

Set the Meziere and EMP up at .75 and 1 though and the Meziere gets its ass kicked.

We are usually at 1000rwhp w 16-19psi depending on dyno and transmission. Even a 5 degree drop would be substantial when compared to the rise we have now, but not worth any power. We're just trying to maintain that rise w a big power increase.

I'm curious when you start running into diminishing returns. You may not even be close yet. I've seen some of the drag race guys with the IC sitting in the passenger seat claiming 55-60deg IAT's going through the traps on 30-32psi. The capacity of their IC's is MASSIVE though. I'll bet some of those guys hardly change the water out once during a pass.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

You're killing me here!!!!! I'm going to explain this one more time. I'll try to keep it even simpler.

Hahaha sorry. I'm just trying to get a handle on these equations. You know us pesky engineers with our equations and explanations.

You have a 5.0L motor with a compressor (doesn't matter what it is) pushing air into it and it makes 15 psi and 700hp.

You have a 2.5L motor with the exact same compressor spinning the exact same speed. It will make 30psi and 700hp.

I assume you're using the PV=nRT equation here and assuming that the compression process is isothermal, correct? That makes sense. Half the volume, double the pressure if temp stays the same.

The 5.0L motor will have a 255 deg discharge temp which is made up of 15psi @ 12deg/psi + 75 ambient.

The 2.5L motor will have a 435 deg discharge temp which is made up of 30psi @ 12deg/psi + 75 ambient.

Here's where I'm confused. For the first part to be true, it has to be isothermal. Otherwise the PV=nRT equation doesn't fit.

But if it is isothermal, then the discharge temps would be identical, which simply isn't true in the real world.

So where's the disconnect? Well, the process isn't isothermal for starters. Compression increases temperature. I don't think that's a linear process, but I don't have my thermal fluid systems book here so I can't double check that.

Basically what I'm getting at is that the smaller motor would have to make more than 30psi to match the 700hp because for each PSI it makes, the temperature changes and thus the volume does as well. Unfortunately, this starts delving into differential equations and all that fun stuff.

Does that sound about right? I'm about to go make an excel sheet and plot these values to see how much PSI the smaller motor would actually need. It might not be much more than 30 anyways.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Hahaha sorry. I'm just trying to get a handle on these equations. You know us pesky engineers with our equations and explanations.



I assume you're using the PV=nRT equation here and assuming that the compression process is isothermal, correct? That makes sense. Half the volume, double the pressure if temp stays the same.




Here's where I'm confused. For the first part to be true, it has to be isothermal. Otherwise the PV=nRT equation doesn't fit.

But if it is isothermal, then the discharge temps would be identical, which simply isn't true in the real world.

So where's the disconnect? Well, the process isn't isothermal for starters. Compression increases temperature. I don't think that's a linear process, but I don't have my thermal fluid systems book here so I can't double check that.

Basically what I'm getting at is that the smaller motor would have to make more than 30psi to match the 700hp because for each PSI it makes, the temperature changes and thus the volume does as well. Unfortunately, this starts delving into differential equations and all that fun stuff.

Does that sound about right? I'm about to go make an excel sheet and plot these values to see how much PSI the smaller motor would actually need. It might not be much more than 30 anyways.

If you were sitting right here I would cuff you in the back of the head Leroy Jethro Gibbs style!

We are talking about imaginary compressors and imaginary motors with all variables scaling equally. This is an exercise in how heat relates to boost, not HP. You are making this way to difficult. It's 2+2=4, don't try and make it into the e=mc2.

You have to learn the basic concept before you start adding variables.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

If you were sitting right here I would cuff you in the back of the head Leroy Jethro Gibbs style!

We are talking about imaginary compressors and imaginary motors with all variables scaling equally. This is an exercise in how heat relates to boost, not HP. You are making this way to difficult. It's 2+2=4, don't try and make it into the e=mc2.

You have to learn the basic concept before you start adding variables.

Lmfao. One of these days you may get your chance.

I'm working on a spreadsheet now. I'll see where that takes me and get back to this thread when I've done some numbers.

 

[CPRsm]

I assume you're using the PV=nRT equation here and assuming that the compression process is isothermal, correct? That makes sense. Half the volume, double the pressure if temp stays the same.


Here's where I'm confused. For the first part to be true, it has to be isothermal. Otherwise the PV=nRT equation doesn't fit.

Basically what I'm getting at is that the smaller motor would have to make more than 30psi to match the 700hp because for each PSI it makes, the temperature changes and thus the volume does as well. Unfortunately, this starts delving into differential equations and all that fun stuff.

Does that sound about right? I'm about to go make an excel sheet and plot these values to see how much PSI the smaller motor would actually need. It might not be much more than 30 anyways.

Yes, it is isothermic for discussion purposes only. It's VERY general as it doesn't take in VE, rpm, or anything. It is just a way of comparing boost, CID and mass as if everything were equal.

The 55 Meziere when set up with 1.25" line was only 1.5gpm behind the EMP for me. That is through a HE and IC and 12' of hose.

Set the Meziere and EMP up at .75 and 1 though and the Meziere gets its ass kicked.

Makes sense it would change, but odd the numbers are so different.

I'm curious when you start running into diminishing returns. You may not even be close yet. I've seen some of the drag race guys with the IC sitting in the passenger seat claiming 55-60deg IAT's going through the traps on 30-32psi. The capacity of their IC's is MASSIVE though. I'll bet some of those guys hardly change the water out once during a pass.

may change out the water more than once, they still run large pumps. Too lazy to do the math on the exchange on these two cores. But can tell you it doesn't take long lol.
Comparisons will be hard w this one, but curious as well. Higher rpm and boost is going to make apple to Apple comparison harder. More mass at a higher speed, etc.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Makes sense it would change, but odd the numbers are so different.

Some of their stuff is close. IDK what they set up to run that pressure vs flow test though. That one is goofy.

may change out the water more than once, they still run large pumps. Too lazy to do the math on the exchange on these two cores. But can tell you it doesn't take long lol.
Comparisons will be hard w this one, but curious as well. Higher rpm and boost is going to make apple to Apple comparison harder. More mass at a higher speed, etc.

My rough guess is that you are changing the water in the IC out about 3x in 10 seconds. One of those giant IC's about 1.5x in 10 sec. So a 7sec car doesn't see much water changin!

 

[CPRsm]

Hoping for some 1/2 mile w it soon. Give us a really good idea of how the exchange is working then!

 

[Department Of Boost]

Hoping for some 1/2 mile w it soon. Give us a really good idea of how the exchange is working then!

Yeah, no kidding!

I've run my 2007 a mile twice now. Not with my new heat exchanger/IC setup though. It was pretty toasty at the mile mark. But I'm not a cheater, I don't use ice.

 

[rcm90]

Yeah, no kidding!

I've run my 2007 a mile twice now. Not with my new heat exchanger/IC setup though. It was pretty toasty at the mile mark. But I'm not a cheater, I don't use ice.

Who says using ice is cheating?

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Welp, I screwed around with it and didn't like the results. It's not going to work until I start throwing some differential equations in there; the relationships just aren't linear. Ah well. Maybe if I get bored I'll mess with it some more.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Who says using ice is cheating?

That was me just pokin fun.

 

[rcm90]

That was me just pokin fun.

Just giving ya a hard time. Lots of great info you put out btw!

 

[Department Of Boost]

Just giving ya a hard time. Lots of great info you put out btw!

CHEATER!!!!

 

[CPRsm]

Yeah, no kidding!

I've run my 2007 a mile twice now. Not with my new heat exchanger/IC setup though. It was pretty toasty at the mile mark. But I'm not a cheater, I don't use ice.

Heat exchanger? What's that?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Heat exchanger? What's that?

I prefer to do things the hard way. Because I'm dumb.

 

[blownGTvert]

The 2013/14 GT500 innercooler pump is rated @ 55gpm. Would the actual flow rate through the IC match the Meizere 55gpm pump above?

I picked up a heat exchanger and innercooler pump from a 2014 GT500. Both pump and exchanger are considerably larger than the 07-12 GT500 parts. I will sent the pump to DOB for some actual test data!

 

[CPRsm]

Always wondered how units like that would preform w respectable lines

 

[Department Of Boost]

Always wondered how units like that would preform w respectable lines

I haven't done a lot of "upsize" testing. I only have so much time. But, the little bit of testing I have done shows that when you run bigger lines pumps will perform better. At what point does that stop? IDK. On the flip side it only takes one small restriction (lets say running 1.25 into 1" fittings right before the IC) hurts flow about 15-20%.