F stock spring question?

[white86hatch]

I competed in my very first autocross last weekend and I had a blast! I believe I'm going to continue to try my luck in F stock for the rest of this season. And move up to open track later this year and eventually SM in autox.

My question is this. I've read the rules for F stock and since the boss 302 was an option for 2013 can I get away with running factory boss 302 springs? I only compete locally and I wouldn't think .4-5" ride height difference would be noticeable enough to raise red flags. My car is a base suspension 2013 gt. It's leaving much to be desired, I plan on swapping the front sway bar, shocks and struts, and swapping to brembo wheels with better rubber as well.

 

[sholzer]

If you have a non-brembo car, you cannot run the brembo wheels without also upgrading/adding everything that was on the brembo package, let alone to legally having to upgrade your entire car to Boss spec to run the boss springs.

If I were you, unless you plan on running r-comps or would specifically like to run FS, I'd just run in STX. More allowances and not having to worry about package upgrades, update/backdate etc AND you'd have a slightly more forgiving PAX index if you care about where you place PAX wise.

 

[white86hatch]

Wow so the factory option rule is individual car specific? Seems a Bit harsh. Wish i would've waited for a brembo car now. That's nuts. I'm out on stx. Wasting money on 265's doesn't entice me.

Could I run any of the 19" wheels the regular gt's had as an option?

 

[Whiskey11]

Wow so the factory option rule is individual car specific? Seems a Bit harsh. Wish i would've waited for a brembo car now. That's nuts. I'm out on stx. Wasting money on 265's doesn't entice me.

Could I run any of the 19" wheels the regular gt's had as an option?

The way SCCA classing works in stock and street touring is that if you want something from another package for your model year you have to do the complete conversion to that packages specifications unless there is an allowance for it. In order for you to run Boss springs on your car you would have to buy every exact part on a Boss and use it. Then you wouldnt be in F stock anymore since the Boss 302s are not in F stock.

STX sounds like a good place for you to land and would allow for some very basic modifications that make the car easier to drive and less hard on tires. You have to remember that you are limited to 18x9 wheels and 265 wide tires in STX though. Not much there for the new 5.0s power output. If your region has a catchall "Street Tire Index" for cars not in ST or Road Tire classes you could run on E Street Prepared rules (same suspension mods as ST just more power basically) in the Street Tire index. The Nebraska region calls our Street Tire index "Road Tire Prepared" to stick with the RT theme for the provisional Road Tire classes (stock on street tires).

 

[white86hatch]

Ok cool. So pretty much with the planned mods for the car I'll run F as long as I can. Then move to ESP and get murdered, then SM eventually and get murdered there as well. Sweet!

 

[jayel579]

Wow so the factory option rule is individual car specific? Seems a Bit harsh. Wish i would've waited for a brembo car now. That's nuts. I'm out on stx. Wasting money on 265's doesn't entice me.

Could I run any of the 19" wheels the regular gt's had as an option?

Run whatever you want locally, no one will protest you until you start winning all the time. And even that wouldn't happen unless you are at Nationals. Setup the car however you want and have fun with it. You're only racing in a parking lot, best way to learn car dynamics, control, and positioning for when you hit the track. The consequences on an autocross lot are a ton less then on an open track. Get your learn on.

 

[sholzer]

Ok cool. So pretty much with the planned mods for the car I'll run F as long as I can. Then move to ESP and get murdered, then SM eventually and get murdered there as well. Sweet!

What do you plan on doing to the car that you're deadset on ending up in SM?

 

[white86hatch]

What do you plan on doing to the car that you're deadset on ending up in SM?

Eventually I want large R compound tires on all 4 corners, both sway bars, watts link, UCA, LCA'S and brackets, and an or/x pipe with tune. Those are the mods that I ASSUME would knock me out of ST and into SP then SM

 

[Whiskey11]

Eventually I want large R compound tires on all 4 corners, both sway bars, watts link, UCA, LCA'S and brackets, and an or/x pipe with tune. Those are the mods that I ASSUME would knock me out of ST and into SP then SM

Yeah the large r comps will put you in ESP. The only ESP disqualifier in that list are LCAs and LCA relocation brackets. The rest of that list is legal. You can cut fenders in ESP if you want wider than 315s at each corner.

 

[white86hatch]

Yeah the large r comps will put you in ESP. The only ESP disqualifier in that list are LCAs and LCA relocation brackets. The rest of that list is legal. You can cut fenders in ESP if you want wider than 315s at each corner.

315's are the max I'll run when that time comes. It's a street car first, "race" car second lol. Hopefully you can see my point of view now. The ultimate goal is to have at open track days and have fun dodging cones when I get the chance. I'm not a fan of the idea of swapping parts back and forth to fit in a class when I don't care if I win or lose.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Why not C Prepared, assuming that you wouldn't be the only entry in it? The CP PAX is actually a tiny bit kinder than SM.


Norm

 

[Napoleon85]

Ok cool. So pretty much with the planned mods for the car I'll run F as long as I can. Then move to ESP and get murdered, then SM eventually and get murdered there as well. Sweet!

Exactly why I gave up on trying to autocross my 5.0. I didn't build my car with SCCA/NASA rules in mind, only to later find out that it's all fucking retarded.

 

[white86hatch]

Why not C Prepared, assuming that you wouldn't be the only entry in it? The CP PAX is actually a tiny bit kinder than SM.


Norm

I'm not against that idea. I'm not trying to be competitive in anything larger than the local events.

Exactly why I gave up on trying to autocross my 5.0. I didn't build my car with SCCA/NASA rules in mind, only to later find out that it's all fucking retarded.

And here's where I'm with you. The rules are semi confusing to me but I think I've figured them out. So we shall see. I've got a clear plan to follow now so hopefully they don't go changing everything up before I finish the car.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Why not C Prepared, assuming that you wouldn't be the only entry in it? The CP PAX is actually a tiny bit kinder than SM.

Norm

Yea, I noticed this as well. When I took my NASA TT3 prepped street car to a recent SCCA event I was torn between running SMod or CPrepared. But then I realized: my car is not legal for CP, due to the rear wing. Prepared only allows rear spoilers (exception: XPrepared).


Left: Wings are scary in SCCA Prepared! Right: Instead of wings StreetPrepared and Prepared use 1960s era rear spoilers. How quaint!

I beat the CP field that day by about 4 seconds, other than two "Real" CP cars running in Pro class, on real slicks (only put 1/2 sec on the fastest). SMod was a lot faster class, and I only put 2 tenths on them, in this ballasted up 3800 pound car/drive (+ another 200 pound passenger). But that PAX factor for SMod was brutal! Took me from winning overall in PAX (with ESP factor) to 10th overall (with SM PAX).


Honestly - fully prepped, both StreetMod and Prepared cars can get very radical

Long story short: running StreetMod or CP will put you against much faster cars than STX or ESP, but SMod does allow for more common mods like real aero, LCA relocation brackets, and other simple bolt-on parts that work. If you are torn on what you want to build for, and if you might do track events and autocrossing, then maybe wait a bit and get more familiar with both forms of motorsport. We have tried to make one car do SCCA autocross and NASA Time Trial (or some other combination of track + autocross) and there is always some MASSIVE compromise on prep, usually due to the odd restrictions that SCCA classing tends to have. This is because most of the SCCA rule sets are based on technology and thinking from 40-50 years ago, and rarely if ever get updated. Lots of ultra-conservative people write their rules... and I don't mean politically conservative, I mean "all change is BAD" conservative.

There are exceptions: the newer categories, those created in the last decade or so, tend have much more up-to-date rules that allow modern technology and current standard modifications. Classes like Street Touring, StreetMod and XPrepared (which is a "Prepared" class but has its own ruleset). I always try to get people that want to autocross into those 3 categories instead of the old-and-busted Stock/StreetPrepared/Prepared categories - all three of which all need MASSIVE updates or complete reboots, to make sence in modern times.

 

[csamsh]

Speaking of real aero- has anyone explored the use of the G-Stream Boss 302S wing? I would say that's an OEM-available part...does the SCCA share my point of view?

 

[Whiskey11]

Speaking of real aero- has anyone explored the use of the G-Stream Boss 302S wing? I would say that's an OEM-available part...does the SCCA share my point of view?

I'm going to go with no. The Boss 302S and 302R are not street cars and wouldn't fall under the OEM parts clause for aero since it was never on the street legal version of the Boss 302. Street Prepared's rule set does not say you can add a wing either, only a spoiler (subject to constraints).

 

[Sky Render]

Exactly why I gave up on trying to autocross my 5.0. I didn't build my car with SCCA/NASA rules in mind, only to later find out that it's all fucking retarded.

No need to give up on autocross altogether. Just build your car however YOU want and let the SCCA put you in whatever class they want.

It's not like most people can hope to be competitive at a national level, anyway. Just do it to have fun!

 

[Norm Peterson]

No need to give up on autocross altogether. Just build your car however YOU want and let the SCCA put you in whatever class they want.

This ↑↑↑ .

Every car that I've autocrossed either has or would have ended up in 'Prepared' specifically because the way I've modified them to suit the way I want my street driving to be lands them there.

There is a little extra satisfaction to be had when you in your weenie-Prepared car pick off any of the more fully-prepped entries, and yes, this does happen. The rest of the time you can benchmark your performance against SP or ST that you're only a little outside of being legal for.


Norm