road racing driving technique

[foolio2k4]

I have a small question to you veteran corner carvers.
I have done a small amount of karting and autoxing. I have always believed that you should brake first before entering a corner, etc.
This may sound stupid but I've been watching onboard footage of F1 cars w/ the brake and throttle input.
I've noticed that they brake and turn into the corner while braking. Letting off before hitting the apex. You'll know what I mean when you go on the formula1.com website and watch the onboard footage.
Does this technique only apply to open wheel cars or is this something I should be doing in my car when i go to track events. Thanks.

 

[Kaldar142]

its called trail braking and takes ALOT of skill to do properly like they do.

do not attempt it as your frist time out, or for a while actually.

the reason you dont brake into turns is because of the weight transfer, it overloads the outside front tire therefore causing understeer.

Have you ever heard of the string theory? think of having two strings attached to your steering wheel going to your brake and gas pedal with just enough slack to fully depress them when the steering wheel is straight.

when you turn your wheel, you cannot press the gas very much or it will snap the string, same with the brake. as you turn the wheel, let off the brake and/or gas and as you unwind the wheel/track out you are (naturally) able to get back into the gas / brake.

the idea is to do everything in a straightline, tires perform best in a straight line. The best advice i ever got from an instructor was to try to imagine going through a straight line through a corner.

 

[foolio2k4]

Ok thats what I thought. I didnt know what trail braking was but after watching I assumed that was it.
yeah, I would have thought that it would induce massive understeer on our cars cuz of of weight distribution. I understand what your talking about kaldar.
I was just curious as to what exactly that was. I guess its more useful for cars that have a rear biased weight distribution then.
Ill stick with my traditional method like you said

 

[Branomano08BlackBullitt]

Have you ever heard of the string theory? think of having two strings attached to your steering wheel going to your brake and gas pedal with just enough slack to fully depress them when the steering wheel is straight.

when you turn your wheel, you cannot press the gas very much or it will snap the string, same with the brake. as you turn the wheel, let off the brake and/or gas and as you unwind the wheel/track out you are (naturally) able to get back into the gas / brake.

the idea is to do everything in a straightline, tires perform best in a straight line. The best advice i ever got from an instructor was to try to imagine going through a straight line through a corner.

Wow man that is some great advice thanks. Helped me out quite a bit thinking about it that way... I am really getting into the whole AutoX thing just need to get out to the track one of these days.

 

[Kaldar142]

yessir

Once you get out there and do it a few times, all of this stuff starts to make more and more sense

 

[pcdrj]

Best advise here is don't use F1's for your driving example. You're driving a 3500# pig.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

+1! For experienced drivers, trail-braking is virtually a necessary tool in the arsenal, but contrary to what you think, both understeer, AND snap-oversteer that can be the result when improperly done. When you brake, the weight transfers forward, loading the front tires and giving you enhanced steering authority, but at the expense of losing load on the rear tires, which hurts forward bite. It's used to get the car rotating in the corner, allowing you to get on the gas sooner and really rocket out, but just a tiny little touch too much braking or speed going in, and the rear end, because it's effectively unloaded, will just kick out from under you. Also realize that as soon as you start your turn-in, you are also transferring load to the outside of the car... Combine front-load with side-load, and you will have your outside-front tire dangerously close to being OVER-loaded, in which case it will push straight off the track. This is a fairly advanced technique, and before you can really take advantage of it, you REALLY have to know how to balance the car under all different loading and traction conditions. A little too much either way, and things get bad in a hurry.

When you're learning how to drive on a track, make only ONE control input at a time: Wheel, brake, gas: pick one. Start by doing all your braking in a straight line before corner-entry, THEN turn, and as soon as you start to get to corner-exit, where you begin to unwind the wheel, THEN gas... Oh, and for ALL control inputs: think smooth. Don't yank the wheel over, roll it into the turn. That lets the car take a comfortable set on the suspension and will allow you to get into the power sooner, since the car isn't flopping around so much. For braking: think "touch-squeeze." You want to brake firmly, but not simulate a panic stop. Get your foot on the pedal (touch), and then firmly push down on the pedal (squeeze) to the threshold of wheel lockup or ABS activation. Then, get off the pedal at about the same rate. For the gas, NEVER tromp down on it, or just lift-off suddenly, but roll into and out of the gas. Sharp control inputs just unsettle the chassis, and when you start pushing right up to the limits of traction, that slight unsettling can cause a spin or other bad things.

It's one of those paradoxical "slow down to go faster" deals...

 

[Kaldar142]

+1

When youre a beginner it may seem "OK" to make those harsh and abrupt manuevers such as turning and suddenly lifting off the gas.

Once youre going at speed, those manuevers WILL cause you to spin

 

[SoundGuyDave]

That right there is what I have the most problem with when transitioning autocross type people onto the road course... They tend to yank-and-bank VERY hard, as if they're still doing 30mph through the cones, instead of 125mph into a carousel. On the track, things happen a LOT slower, but at MUCH higher speeds...

 

[Kaldar142]

haha, yeah...

i tried autox once

not a huge fan of it... i like to be able to stretch my legs! haha

if i did autox i would pick up a miata

 

[spiral281]

just got done with another autox today...been a while for me too, but i let a friend drive my car too...he normally drives a impreza 2.5 lol...on the topic of jerky inputs though, i saw several people with near stock fwd's almost going ass around because they were jerking the wheel while braking...and as always, you'd think the gas pedal was all or nothing...i would hate to have to drive my car like that...i would like to get rid of some of the understeer some day...stupid gt500 stock tires....

 

[SoundGuyDave]

And there you have it, sports fans! Smooth is fast, AND safe... And yes, the best mod you can do is seat time, especially with an instructor riding shotgun!

 

[spiral281]

i put the only video i had from today up in the video section...it was my fastest run of the day, some kid wanted to ride so i figured why the hell not and let him...didnt hurt, like i said, it was the fastest time i ran that day...I ran in esp...