Upgrade 06 gt or sell?

[Matt Krompier]

Makes them feel good.

My car makes maybe 550rwhp, and I only say that because of dyno sheets I've seen posted here and elsewhere - due to the ubiquity of blown 3v combinations. I hope to get it on a friend's dyno this coming spring.

It's a fun street car, the 285 rears don't hook at all in first but I can manage it in 2nd. I expect 305 M/T ET Street R radials will tax the diff housing and clutch.

If you are doing your own work and want a project build your car. That's why you do these things. If you have to pay someone, _never_. Get a 2020 GT500.

Thank you for actually telling me something and not just putting me down/being rude for no apparent reason

 

[eighty6gt]

No problem - I don't go around acting like I'm in the marine corps, I have nothing to prove and want the inevitable decline of this forum to go as smoothly as possible lol...

I'll send you a url you can use as a build guide when I'm finished my website update. Working on it now. Send me a message on here with your email.

 

[skwerl]

I wasn't being rude, I was simply calling you out on everything you've posted in this thread since you started it. You asked for advice then pushed back on the first 4-5 responses because none of them aligned with your desired course of action. Yes, I can read your posts well enough to understand your meaning (in spite of your apparent lack of education and inability to type in complete sentences).

As I have read identical threads here hundreds of times over the last several years, I simply cut to the chase instead of trying to massage your ego and tell you everything is going to be alright. You had lots of options on how to receive my post and chose the melting snowflake approach, calling me out multiple times in multiple posts for being rude and hurting your widdle feelings.

This is not a forum known for being welcoming to snowflakes. You can hitch up your britches and begin acting like a man or you can run away and go find a forum full of other melting snowflakes where you can sit around and massage each others egos. At one time this forum had the best tech on the internet for the 3v platform. Unfortunately it has been out of production for 9 years and most have moved on to bigger and better things. There is still a ton of info here but most is hidden under a thick layer of dust. A few of us still remember where it is.

 

[eighty6gt]

Whew is it hot in here or what

 

[stkjock]

This forum has always been known for straight and blunt posting

What has been posted here is mild compared to what the history of the board has seen

It’s not for everyone. The information among the threads here is the most in-depth and detailed across the web.

 

[hockeygod]

I agree about upgrading to the Shelby platform. This advice coming from a fully built 3v guy with every upgrade imaginable from bumper to.bumper. One pro I can give you about sticking with the 3v and I guess it could apply to the Shelby as well would be that I feel there is something to be said about getting to know your car and building everything the way you want it from the ground up. It's a very satisfying feeling. Money wise you would end up cheaper going for a Shelby which also has a unique design with a more limited run.

 

[Matt Krompier]

I agree about upgrading to the Shelby platform. This advice coming from a fully built 3v guy with every upgrade imaginable from bumper to.bumper. One pro I can give you about sticking with the 3v and I guess it could apply to the Shelby as well would be that I feel there is something to be said about getting to know your car and building everything the way you want it from the ground up. It's a very satisfying feeling. Money wise you would end up cheaper going for a Shelby which also has a unique design with a more limited run.

Thanks for the advice. Can I ask do you have any dyno sheets? Curious to see your gains.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Trying to decide if I should upgrade or sell for one that already has a motor that I can build up this is my fav new year besides the 67 feel it looks very similar but I know the engines stock you can’t really build them up to too much power without starting to break stuff not sure how much I could make a bunch of power would like to go higher then just 500 but also don’t want to spend over 20-25 to do it at that point might as well buy something that can already handle it I feel what are your thoughts?

A set of forged rods/pistons for the 4.6 3V will cost you a mere $1200, TSS billet oil pump gears a further $400, so for $1600 you'd have an engine that'll handle up to 700 crank hp.
Then you could add a Department of Boost supercharger kit for $4700, add a dyno tune, and you're done.

http://www.departmentofboost.com/products/index.htm

 

[tjm73]

Is your $20-25K your top level max budget?

 

[Matt Krompier]

A set of forged rods/pistons for the 4.6 3V will cost you a mere $1200, TSS billet oil pump gears a further $400, so for $1600 you'd have an engine that'll handle up to 700 crank hp.
Then you could add a Department of Boost supercharger kit for $4700, add a dyno tune, and you're done.

http://www.departmentofboost.com/products/index.htm

See and that’s what I thought too! That’s why I didn’t understand why people were saying I was pushing and back and stuff I just wanted to see if doing that stuff was actually going to be cheaper/give me the gains I want. I’m just trying to find information and the different routes I can take but it does still seem like I could make a GT500 faster easier since everything is basically done already.

Is your $20-25K your top level max budget?

No not really my max budget. But just looking at like if I spent that much I would have basically bought myself the GT500 so it’s like am I just saving myself the headache and $$ in the end is what I’m trying to figure out.

 

[stkjock]

A set of forged rods/pistons for the 4.6 3V will cost you a mere $1200, TSS billet oil pump gears a further $400, so for $1600 you'd have an engine that'll handle up to 700 crank hp.
Then you could add a Department of Boost supercharger kit for $4700, add a dyno tune, and you're done.

http://www.departmentofboost.com/products/index.htm

you're presuming he can do the work?

where's the cost for machine work?
fuel system upgrade?
clutch?
rear end?

there's a lot more than what you list

 

[Matt Krompier]

you're presuming he can do the work?

where's the cost for machine work?
fuel system upgrade?
clutch?
rear end?

there's a lot more than what you list

what would be your estimate of cost?

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

you're presuming he can do the work?

where's the cost for machine work?
fuel system upgrade?
clutch?
rear end?

there's a lot more than what you list

All very good points. The cost will vary depending on who's doing the work and the parts that are selected. The engine rebuild would need to include machine shop costs, new fasteners, gaskets/seals, bearings, oil, coolant, and labor.
Fuel system upgrades would depend on the target HP level. Bigger injectors plus boost-a-pump (up to 600 crank hp) for sure, dual pumps above 600hp.
Clutch/flywheel upgrades also depend on HP level. The stock TR3650 tranny is only rated to 390lbft so a tranny upgrade (e.g. TR6060 or T56 Maxnum XL) would be another item to add to the shopping list.
Further down the drivetrain, the stock two-piece steel driveshaft would need to be upgraded to an aluminum single-piece item. The stock rear end would need C-clip eliminator 31-spline axleshafts especially if drag radials or slicks are used.
Not a comprehensive list of items and I haven't even touched on upgrades to the suspension and brakes.
One might argue that by the time you've added the total cost of all these upgrades, you might be better off starting with a GT500 platform instead. However you'd be paying the price premium of the GT500 right away (even more if it needs repairs) whereas you can perform the above mentioned GT upgrades gradually as your budget allows. It all depends on how much you're prepared to spend.

 

[stkjock]

what would be your estimate of cost?

Really depends on what the goal is and if you’re paying someone to do it all. Could be anywhere from anywhere from $7000-20,000+

Spend some time reading the threads here instead of asking question by question.

 

[hockeygod]

Thanks for the advice. Can I ask do you have any dyno sheets? Curious to see your gains.

I don't have any sheets but I do have a video posted in one of my other threads. I dynoed at 711rwhp on a mustang Dyno. Others here are correct though. I easily have 30k+ into my car. Besides engine you need to consider fuel system, transmission, clutch, driveshaft, rear end if your ever going to run slicks, .Suspension to put the power to the ground, supercharger etc. Not to mention I did all of my own work except short block assembly.

 

[JJ427R]

A gentleman I know recently purchased a 2014 Roush Stage 3 with only 6000 miles for about $35k. 675hp with full factory warranty and a lot of room to grow, similar to the used Shelby's you are considering but with the 5.0 motor.
One other thing, not sure if you want an automatic or manual trans but unlike the GT 500's the Roush is available with an automatic.

Personally, If looking at building high hp I'd put my money into 2011 and newer just for the fact your are starting with almost 100hp more as a base with the 5.0 over the 4.6 motor. With the Shelby you get a bit more motor, but compared to a Roush the Shelby prices are usually higher as well, just giving you something more to consider.... Best of luck with whatever you decide on, as long as it's a Mustang you're good....

 

[skwerl]

I built my 2009 Bullitt up to 643 RWHP and had close to $75K in it by the time it was done. I'm glad I built it and did it myself but I will never do that again. Today I can take my stock 2014 GT over to VMP, drop a blower on it and drive out with 600 RWHP the same day. The handling difference between my 2009 and the 2014 is substantial, and the 2015+ models handle even better. Also my 2014 is much more stable at speed than my 2009 ever was. At 140 the Bullitt was all over the place but my 2014 is quite stable.

Not that I'm going to influence you, just letting you know my opinion comes from actual experience and not just being a keyboard racer.

 

[Pentalab]

At least with the 07-12 GT-500's, they already come with a larger displacement motor, 2L/122 ci blower, 6060 manual tranny... rated for 600 ft lbs of tq. GT-500 motor already comes with forged crank / rods pistons...+ dual fuel pumps. Either use a smaller pulley for some more hp, or swap the blower for a bigger one..drop in unit... like the VMP TVS-2300 or 2650 blower. Then you don't have to tear the eng apart. If you are planning on paying somebody to rebuild your 4.6 you will go broke in the long drawn out process.
Your proposed megabuck 4.6 L, will then require the 6060 manual tranny, so what you end up with, in essence is transforming your car into a GT-500 wannabee anyway.

The 13/14 GT-500's already come with 615 rwhp...and the newer TVS-2300 blower...right outa the box..stock. They also make a high flow elbow for the 13/14 GT-500's..and smaller pulleys. You can also buy a wide variety of drop in PD blowers for the 13/14 GT-500 ( and ditto with the 07-12 GT-500's). What are you planning to do with the car ? 550 rwhp is more than ample for street use.

 

[tjm73]

I left S197 ownership due the cost. It was just too much money for me to justify modifying the one I had. Plus the payment plus the insurance. I went back to my roots and bought a '93 GT that would eat any S197 I could build alive. And it was half the cost of the '05 I had.

If I had the extra money to spend, like it sounds you do, I would start with the newest car I could.

If you want say 600hp it's much easier to get there with a more powerful base engine. The 5.0 DOHC was a massive shift in power production capacity in the Ford world. It's first year was 412 hp and 390 lb-ft. Add just 8psi to that engine and you are in the 625-650 range (crank). Put 12 psi from a turbo on it and you are at an easy 750 crank.

 

[tjm73]

550 rwhp is more than ample for street use.

I might even argue that 400 whp is ample for a street car. Hell 350whp will out run 95% of the other cars on the street. And do it fast enough that your had better be paying attention or you will cause the accident.